tm22721

This is exactly what Fred Shoemaker documented in 'Extraordinary Golf'. Amateurs threw clubs at a target and after a few dozen attempts he recorded their swings. Their dynamics and positions mimicked tour pros. Of course when they tried it with a ball it was right back to a flippy swaying OTT mess. So what is the secret to retaining the feel of throwing a club with a ball in front of you ?

Initially I liked the aiming point point concept but now I realize it to be a crutch for lack of weight transfer, pure manipulation, prone to inconsistency. If you generate enough live tension through upper/lower body separation during transition, most of the lateral shift will have occurred by the end of the backswing . Putting you in position to hit well before the downswing sequence is even half completed with a swing bottom 4" in front of the ball.

Anything worth doing takes 10,000 hours to master and no sales gimmicks can improve that. The reason is that feel can't be taught can't be learned it must be EARNED through experimentation, trial and error.

You are right swing thoughts plague this game. Get in this position, get in that position. Arrgghh. Dynamics make positions not the other way around. Nobody wants to talk about dynamics I wonder why. Maybe because dynamics can't be seen they can only be felt and feel is not real ?

Lots of lateral movement of his hips in the downswing. We can't see the dynamics that made those positions. IMO it is that of a hammer throw - counterbalance of the body and the club. Hogan's generation used heavy clubs and went so far as to tape the clubheads to make them even heavier. We may have lost this dynamic feel with modern lightweight clubs. If you look at the dynamics of amateurs throwing a club at a target they mimic tour pros at impact after only a few dozen attempts.

I am stuck at 10 because I prefer to hit greens so I use a 7i even for driving. What good is distance if I am always hitting off a bad lie ? That only drives up my score.

Literally aim the clubhead behind you as you start down to stay off the ball as long as possible.

I practice with a 1960 Wilson Pro Staff Dyna-Powered set of irons, heavy so lots of feel. If you can hit the 1 iron straight (Hogan at Merion in 1950 US Open, 18th hole) you can hit anything.

Here's the drill And for reference

In Fred Shoemaker's Extraordinary Golf I read that throwing a club will teach you the swing dynamics of a tour pro. Too bad it doesn't work with a ball.

Japan lost 95% of its golf memberships since their recession started in 1990 and it's still not over. Coming our way...

The pros know that the key is smooth acceleration to produce a gradual building of speed through impact. Even the pros can't do this perfectly THEY ALL DECELERATE TO SOME EXTENT but they do better than the rest of us. There are only two pros I have seen that can accelerate all the way through and beyond impact and one is John Erickson an ex-Canadian tour player from the late 80s. And that's because he knows how Hogan did it. The other pro is Peter Senior from Australia.

You are right it is feel vs real. My intention is to rotate my hips but there is some sliding first because I am bipedal and there are ground forces that initially resist the rotation. If my intention is to slide it ends in disaster. Different strokes...

I perform practice swings feeling the entire body stretch at the top of the swing by reaching for the sky. The stretch is from my planted left heel to my left hand. Then turn the hips and feel the quiet and gradual building of speed in the downswing as the upper body is left behind. The hip rotation pulls the stretched upper body through in the correct downswing sequence. Hogan describes this feeling in Five Lessons pages 71 and 74 of the paperback version.

Thank you for responding. Stalling, deceleration…it is EVIL. There is a natural tendency to lead with the upper body and overaccelerate from the top. Needs to be a gradual building of speed into impact…smooth acceleration. I listen to the pitch of the clubhead to tell me where peak speed occurs…it needs to be close to impact to prevent flipping. Sequence is everything…lower body followed by upper…the trick is to retard the upper body…separate it from the lower…two ways to do it. Many do it by sliding the hips to the target. Too difficult for me. I do it by adding a little stretch at the end of the backswing. Same result. Fruitless to argue which method is best. IMO using the hands to generate lag is manipulative…inconsistent. Lag is a byproduct of proper pivot sequence…lower then upper…continuous acceleration. Learned this the hard way through reading and experimentation…problem is closed minds…we all stand on the shoulders of others.

Before when I was sliding my hips in the downswing I could not do it fast enough and would always hit it fat. I can only do it without a ball. How do I fix that ?

Hip slide is an effect not a cause. Along with lag, weight transfer, secondary axis tilt, and all of the interminable positions we discuss on these golf forums. A muscle must be STRETCHED before it can PULL. The prerequisite to turning your hips in the downswing is that YOUR MUSCLES ARE STRETCHED. 'Turn your hips as hard as you can' in Five lessons has gotten a bad reputation because everybody ignores Hogan's caution that you must first have taut muscles before you can turn the hips. Otherwise you will spin out, come over the top etc. In fact slack muscles are the cause of many ills because it promotes manipulation hence inconsistency. First stretch your muscles in the backswing then snap rotate your hips as you feel your wrists begin to break backwards just before the top. Your muscles will stretch as taut as a banjo string. The faster you turn your hips the more the muscles will stretch. You can't turn your hips too fast. Then you will feel a whip like sensation as the clubhead accelerates with speed peaking at impact.

Remember that handicap is your POTENTIAL so IMO low handicappers must occasionally turn in a scratch score.

Like I said my swing may not apply to everybody it takes a lot of backswing stretch which is hard work. Do whatever works consistently for you .

You are correct. It takes the combination of stretched muscles plus a snap of the hips to propel the downswing.

With all due respect to you low handicappers... My personal experience is that stretching my muscles in the backswing against a resistant right leg is the first of two very important swing keys. A muscle must be stretched in the backswing before I can expect it to pull in the downswing. Second swing thought - if I literally snap rotate my hips just BEFORE the top, those muscles are incrementally stretched in the overlap... The downswing itself is automatic I am completely passive just along for the ride which is a good thing because it is only 3-4 tenths of a second not enough time to think or manipulate. My muscles PULL me into secondary axis tilt with a pronounced squat, maximum lag then peak velocity at impact. My left hip socket winds up over the left heel. From the top my left hip rotates 11-12" to the rear and 1-2" toward the target. If I take a video from the front it appears that there is a lot more left hip movement to the target but that is an optical illusion because my hip is mostly rotating around to the rear NOT MATERIALLY TOWARD THE TARGET. IMO lateral hip movement is an effect, not a cause. If I really stttrretttcch those muscles they do the hard work for me. Everybody is built different so what works for me may not apply to you. Here is a set of graphics showing Hogan's hip movements created by a physician who studies biokinetics of the golf swing. Hogans Hip Movement He describes in the fourth graphic "the feeling is that the whole pelvis goes to the South-West as the golfer wants to sit on a high bar stool with his lead buttock". I never feel that move happening at the top of the backswing but I know that it does from video. I think that involuntary move is a result of the right leg (at an acute angle in Hogans case) resisting the coil. There's where your lateral move really occurs - it is with the right hip in the backswing, not the left hip in the downswing !

As significant as this forward motion is, it is incidental to the dominant around motion. So much instruction exhorts us to slide the hips forward and then turn them. Or, bump the hips forward and then turn. Hogan was exactly right it's about rotation, rotation, rotation. Around, around,around. Focus on rotating--forward will take care of itself.

On page 71 of Five Lessons he makes the point that after coiling in the backswing the increased tension caused by turning the hips to start the downswing makes the downswing almost automatic.

Did you read my excerpt from Five Lessons ? "Tension is the key to the whole downswing". How much simpler can Hogan make it for you ? Add a little stretch at the top then turn the hips to start the downswing thereby increasing that tension. IT AUTOMATES THE ENTIRE DOWNSWING including sequence, lag, secondary axis tilt, weight shift.