hopefulhacker

Apologies on so many accounts. I got carried away hammering with all the slamming of doors that was going on. And I was wrong to think it this was a discussion rather than a task to sway your opinion. I'm not trying to sway your opinion... I'm hammering away saying I don't agree with it

The discussion is ALSO about changing a rule of the game.... which would surely warrant a holistic approach it.

Yes, lots of data, the only problem is deciding on which course of the 1000's that converted all their bunkers into water hazards to use (slight hint of sarcasm) Of course there is no data to show this to be true. I am using Erik's workings, you had no problem using these workings yourself. Ball out of bunker: 1.75 Ball into water hazard (formerly bunker) : 2.5 The 2.5 being the penalty stroke and the 1.5 used for greenside rough (after drop) So without asking my local course to do me a favour and convert there bunkers to water hazards... yes, scores would go up!

We have plenty of similar bunkers in Ireland. ;) Third Argument: The proposed change seeks some kind of "fairness" between different hazards but this is ONLY after an unplayable lie is brought into the equation. The proposal is flawed if it seeks parity in punishment from different dangers/hazards BUT nit picks when it wants this fairness. If you filled up all the bunkers on a course with water and red staked them, then scores are going to be higher than if they were left as bunkers. Thus, on the whole. A bunker is less penal than a water hazard. Fourth Argument: The argument for the rule change is based on the premise that "bunkers suck".... Really..... It shows a lack of respect for a key and fundamental area of this game. I would have to challenge you and say that I think you may be too caught up in teaching other areas & skills of the game (very well I may add) that you are almost "dumbing down" bunker play, possibly because it is not an area of your teaching skill set. Bunker play deserves more respect than you are giving it.

Using your "here's some basic math" formula. How do you address the unfairness of a scenario where Player A enters bunker, good lie : 1.75 Player B enters water hazard but ball has held up on dry land : 1.5 ? Both hazards but the balance or fairness you want isn't there Let's call it a day and say that a ball is as likely to plug into a lip of a bunker as it is to cling onto the dry margin of a water hazard.

The old adage "Hard cases make bad law" comes to mind here. Rather than having to argue for the retention of it, what's the real substantial argument for getting rid of it? Bunkers are a unique feature they are not the same as water hazards or bushes. Why should they have the same relief? People should be aware that it is a "drop" within the bunker, if you're getting a severely plugged lie from a drop..... then give arm day at the gym a miss ;)

Ah ok, it read to me that you bought into their "winter rules". They should rename it "Winner Rules" because with that much cheating, you can't lose ;)

I'm betting the OP is still out on the course :)

You'll be surprised with your lack of knowledge of winter rules too Winter Rules are local rules employed during adverse weather conditions in order to protect the course... there can be many variations but the club will always list what makes up the local "winter" rule whenever the club deems them in place. The most common winters rules are Lift, clean and place on fairways within six inches Placing in the rough Bunkers out of play etc Routinely taking drops for OB and lost balls is certainly not winter rules...They are playing No Rules....

Out of interest, how many groups did you let through during the round?

One of my first rounds playing and standing on the Par 3, I picked my 9i out of the bag (thinking it was a 6i) Hit it as well as I could and was delighted with myself as I grabbed my tee from the ground. Looked up to see my playing partners looking on quite puzzled.... I turned my attention back to the ball and watched as it landed 35 yards short.... WTF was my reaction, I slowly grabbed the club head to find out what I had just hit An embarrassing walk followed as we all laughed on our way to the ball. "The best thing about it was the sheer delight on your face and your newbie cockiness as you reached for the tee.... we knew it was short as soon as you hit it" was ringing in my eyes as I stood over the second shot. So my worst moment was followed by my best.... I chipped my approach, one bounce and straight in the hole.... As it dropped in, I turned to the group and said, I got the right club that time Think it was my first birdie too!

If going for the green in 2 then I see no real advantage to taking a long iron of the tee. It only introduces more trouble. It'd seems like only a 9i if you play to the start of the fairway (or short) for tee shot and then maybe a wedge over water to the green. As long as you've got the distance correct both shots offer plenty of margin for error right & left. But I'd be taking out the hybrid I'm afraid :)

On that, I think there are two types of golfer that play without a DMD The first type is the guy that has never used a DMD all his life, and he is well used to reading the course and causes no delays... The other type is that guy who realises on the 1st hole they have left their watch/laser/rangerfinder at home PANIC!!!!! It is amazing how dependent and reliant we become on them

I'm offering my opinion on a forum, I'm not making it my business what is "allowed" of not. My opinion is that Lasers are being bought due to their increased accuracy. My experience is that lasers cause more delay than GPS watches or rangefinders. My conculsion is that if you're game isn't good enough for the increased accuracy to matter, then a laser is a "waste of time" on both accounts. Re the highlighted part, that is my thinking, I'm addressing that, you are/were obviously of an ability for it to become useful.

My post was not really directed at you or players of your ability. My post was addressing higher handicappers and their quest for improved accuracy from a laser when in fact, that additional accuracy and that level makes no difference. And unfortunately, it's my experience that guys that suck at golf (like me) also suck at using a laser.

The way I look at it is, the more inaccurate my GPS is, the better.... If I know that it's inaccurate, then that gives me confidence. I know my shots are inaccurate, and now know my distance may be 5 yards off... So everything may align and I may hit the green. Joking.... But only slightly. For my fellow high HC'ers... When does the 2-3 yards of extra accuracy come into play? From 200, 175, 150, 125, 100, 75, 50 yards out? I play with a 5HC'er regularly and he only believes it adds anything to him from 100 yards and in. Personally I think they should be only allowed for low single figure golfers. I don't appreciate being held up by a fellow high HC'er who spends 30-60 seconds "finding the pin" from 200 yards out.... Only to hack it 50 yards after all the fuss... Rinse and repeat from 150yards and on most holes.

2 shot penalty for anyone that takes a divot.... It seems like the only logical rule missing ;)

Well, it has taken some time but I upgraded my phone and managed to get a few videos Erik. I'm guessing priority piece number 1 will be to work on the legs... they're very pale, we don't get much sun over here I would be very interested to see what you think, first 2 videos are SW, third is 7i.

It is possible that I'll shoot a 59 in my next round, but not probable.

I thought the OP was shooting 100+ & having blow up holes rather than being at the level were he is looking for pars??? He is averaging about 6 strokes a hole. Assuming par 4 as an average, he has to get away from double bogey golf and onto bogey golf before par golf. It wasn't a sweeping statement btw. I said my change was as a result of many things. But the 5i scenario sums it all up nicelyn for me. I also said that I only use it on 300-360 yard holes... I wouldn't have more than an 7i left at that higher end. And my point being, if a high HC'er who is shooting 100 works hard to make a 5i a comfortable club and are confident with it, then having a 7i approach will be no problem either. I'm not saying a 5i is the key and I'm not saying it should be used on every Par 4 or 5. I was looking back on my stats. I shot an 83 this year on the same course I had a 97 on 12 months ago. 14 drivers v 7 drivers used. The "other" 7 were not all 5i's but they were clubs that benefited from my work done tackling my "fear " or long irons (a fear I think most HC'ers have). The OP is fooling himself if he thinks he only has 1 wild drive every 3 rounds. That's 1 wild drive in rounds that he's taking somewhere between 310 -340 strokes to complete the 3 rounds. I think not.

Ok so, change the dropping height requirement to 1mm in these areas :) Or just call them Place Zone Places ;)

I'm surprised when people are surprised when they have an 8 in a round of 100+ For eg, OP is struggling to break 100, If he is shooting 108 then his average score per hole is 6.... 8 isn't a "blow up", it's an expected variance. The "unlucky" blow up hole isn't unlucky and isn't what needs to be addressed. It's the standard of golf, your swing, your course strategy etc. Seeking solace with the mentality of "If I could only eliminate these occasionally blow up holes I'd be ok" is the wrong way to look at it. These "occasional" blow ups come as a result of "consistent" problems with several elements of our game. I went from shooting high 90's to mid 80's over the last 12 or so months. Plenty of reasons but to sum them all up, 5 iron. I was that soldier that got annoyed with people telling me to hit less drives. I don't know how many times I muttered the words "sure I'm just as likely to miss hit an iron" Then one day it just clicked, I finally looked at my shiny and very much unused 5i that I had a fear of hitting and said, I'm going to hit this well. I can now hit it with confidence and it has helped every part of my game. The shorter irons are even easier to hit as a result, but more importantly, I have a club that I know will get me 190 down the fairway. For any par 4 ranging between 300-360, I feel very comfortable hitting a 5i now (this doesn't come easy, a lot of work went into it but it's much more beneficial to your game than working on your drive... I went 3 months over the winter without hitting my driver at the range, many times I just brought 4i,5i,6i with me. I was laughing at some of the comments as I read them, not at the posters but laughing because what they were typing was me 12 months ago. OP, you said that you have 1 wild drive every 3 rounds.... I know scratch golfers that will average 1 a round. Look at the pros, they will have a wild one per round. But you're better than this??? I'm not having a go at you, I guess I'm just trying to make my point. 12 months ago if I hit a drive 250 and fairly straight only for it to land into a fairway bunker or behind a tree I would have considered it a good drive. It's not. A hybrid hit fairly straight would have come up short of that bunker. That's a good shot. And if you go and take a few months of work to get confident with your 5i. The chances of that 8 on the par 3 will be severely reduced. It may still happen but it'll happen an awful lot less. Just my 2c, and I don't know why I even typed it up as 12 months ago I would have read something similar and said, that guy is talking sh1t :) I only learned through countless mistakes, the advice helped but ultimately it was me just thinking - I need to change something about my approach (pun intended ;) ) to this.

Ireland... It's a nice little country when the sun comes out :) Played Corballis Links today. It's a super course, a public one, green fees will set you back a cool €15!!!! It's the same piece of land, side by side, as The Island with green fees that are 10 times that. Some pics:

I guess you had to be there......... :)