Nosevi

Guys, I made a comment that Randy's trail leg looked a little straight. It was not a big deal, it was an observation. We're taught here that straightening this leg too much restricts the amount of torque you can generate in your body in the backswing. The theory is not that you are using your tendons as springs (well, not much anyway) but that in order for you to get the most from your core muscles they want to be extended so when they fire they can generate more power and speed when they contract. Twisting your core extends these muscles. X-factor has absolutely zero to do with tendons acting like springs and everything to do with lengthening core muscles so they can generate more force when they contract. That's no different in any sport where rotational force is used hence using a sport where this generation of power in the core is key. I'm not acting the victim, Erik, but when I've spoken my mind before I've gotten myself in trouble and pissed people off. I'd prefer not to do that again, it's simply not worth the hassle. Good to see you working hard, Randy :)

Ok, firstly lose was a typo, thanks for pointing it out :) In discus, yes you move your feet after the first turn but you create much of the power and speed in that first turn away (want to say coil but you don't seem to agree there is any). It's a sport in which you create a form of rotational power in a very similar way to golf. You may think that's irrelevant, I disagree. I think it's relevant in the same way that it was relevant that Carl Wolter was a Javelin thrower pior to winning the remax long drive championship as a complete rookie to the sport. But we can agree to disagree if you'd like. Bubba vs Willett - yes Bubba hits it further. Wilett creats a big twist in his abdomen (shoulders turn, hips stay square), Bubba creates a big twist in his trail leg. Both create this big twist just in different tendons in the body. It doesn't matter I guess but all the big hitters create this twist and tension somewhere in their bodies. Regarding coiling/twisting/the spring-like nature of the golfer, ok we disagree a bit there as well. Can I go to the extreme of my backswing as I would on a full swing and hold it there without a massive muscular effort? Nope. I doubt anyone can. I'd argue you do in fact create a longitudinal torque through your body (whether that's in the abdomen or the trail leg) at the limit of your swing and that acts a lot like a spring in creating power. Butch Harmon appears to agree with me: What we most definitely do agree on is a totally straight leg is a bad idea. Neither of us know how staight Randy's leg is, let's wait for him to break out the shorts and he can check it himself :) We are allowed to disagree, Phil, you don't need to 'shout me down'. The guys I've worked with in the field of sports science and biomechanics describe the generation of torque in the tendons of the body to create a rotational force. You believe them to be wrong. That's cool, we just disagree :)

I'm not sure we totally disagree - I justthought the leg looks pretty much totally straight. By coil I mean having at least some resistance in the lower body against the upper body. What you are describing is what I'd call turn not what I'd call coil. What do you loose by straightening the right knee and by that I mean totally straightening it? Basically you loose power. When I threw discus competitively I was always taught that you had to maintain flex in the trail knee in order to create coil. In fact you squatted slightly on the 'backswing' to ensure you maintained this flex. Fail to do this and one of two things would happen - either the discus wouldn't go very far or your ACL would snap. Probably both. Take your point with Bubba but this lad keeps far more flex in his trail knee. Much of his early coaching was at the same place as me which may be why it's a feature of his swing I guess - it's just what we're taught. Anyway, are we totally disagreeing? I juust think the leg looks straighter than you do, especially in the freeze frames Randy's put up. We both agree that totally straight isn't a great idea. Maybe it's not as straight as it looks to me though.

Phil, are you saying biomechanically you can put as much torque through a straight knee as you can through a knee with some degree of flex retained? We're taught the opposite here at our National Academy. Could be our physios and coaches are wrong and you're right but it is something they teach. Still, the day every golf instructor agrees on everything it'd be a surprise :)

Have you tried any low point drills like putting a towel laid out flat on the ground an inch or two behind the ball and hitting shots to ensure ball then turf contact? If you're fatting and thinning it can often be from the same thing - low point being behind the ball so you fat if you hit the ground and thin if you miss it and hit the ball on the way back up. If strike rather than direction is your main issue then it could be worth spending some time doing this :)

Hey Randy, how's it going? I'll leave it to the instructors on the site to go into the nitty gritty of your swing but the one thing I notice, particularly dtl, is that your right leg gets quite straight on the backswing. This makes it quite difficult to load up and coil on the backswing and so can rob you of potential power. It's something I've had to work really hard on as after a sporting accident and surgery on my right knee I have no feeling in it at all. Anyway, that's something that may (or may not) be worth looking at. Out of curiosity which way did the ball go - starting line and cuvature? Was that representative to on the course?

Over here in the UK the girls can't have a handicap over 36, guys the maximum is 28. If you don't make that you don't get a handicap, so can't be in competitions etc. Bit daft imo, you're as good as you are and everyone should just have a handicap that reflects their ability whatever that may be. There again our handicap system is pretty daft anyway and the fact that things like this seem to be there merely to encourage elitism and keep what the powers that be see as the 'riff raff' off the course has stopped surprising me now.

Been kind of away for a while, sorry to hear this :( My goals are all about competition at my local club level this year. First year of club competition so I could well 'bomb' big time, we'll see. 1. Win at least 25% of club competitions (ie shoot the lowest score disregarding handicap. We have a handicapped and scratch winner for each comp, only really interested in the scratch scores). 3. Win Club Anual Eclectic (lowest score on each hole taken over the summer to give a ecletic score for the year ie birdie every hole in one competition or another over the summer and you're 18 under par). 4. Semi-final in club scratch Matchplay Cup although I'd like to win it. 5. Top 3 in Club Scratch Strokeplay Championship although I'd like to win it to become Club Champion. Hit these goals and I'll be on track to step it up a level next year.

I have never thought that we're "better golfers" or that our system in any way 'breeds' a tougher golfer, what a thing to suggest! ........Although of course we had 5 Englishmen in the top 10 at The Masters vs 5 of your guys in about the top 30.......And of course there's the way the leading pair going into the final round handled the pressure compared to Willett and Westwood....... Then there are all those Ryder Cups to consider....... I don't want to, but in light of statistical evidence I may have to reconsider my position on this topic I'm mucking about of course, there are ebbs and flows as far as how 'our' golfers perform. I hate our handicap system with a passion and wish we'd change to yours or something very similar which actually makes sense. It is a different yardstick - I'm a 5 here as the tournament season just starts up and Game Golf (based on actually comparing my play with others) has me pegged at a 0.4 I think.

I agree with this. I do think in that particular situation Jordan needed experience on the bag but I guess you don't learn how to get back up without falling down a few times. Thing is Jordan is that good that Greller hasn't had to learn that lesson as yet. Very cliché but I think they'll be a stronger partnership having learnt that lesson.

That's what he said. From me? Surely not ? The only thing I'd say is that in this interview he said he couldn't committ to the second shot on 12 because he didn't know the yardage, he said that in another interview too. That seems mad - the shot was about 80 yards so given the distance from the water to the pin plus the distance across the water, how long would it have taken for his caddy to say "Hold on, I'm going to get you the yardage." And to pace it off to the water's edge? Must have only been 50 paces or so. It's not like in the final group he was going to get hit with a warning for taking too much time. I actually think some experienced caddys may have done this even if they knew exactly what the yardage was to give their player time to collect themselves. Didn't do it after the second shot went in the water either so Jordan still didn't know the yardage he was trying to hit other than he had to hit it far enough not to go in the water again. Jordan also said in an interview he turned to his caddy and said "Buddy, it seems like we're collapsing." (1:20 in the below clip) because he needed his caddy to understand where he was mentally and do what was necessary to get them to rebound, which to his credit he did. It's never the caddy's fault but I could name a handful of experienced caddys who would have 'managed' their player and the situation very differently. Recognising Jordan's mind was a bit of a blur after 10 and 11, realising that the danger lay in Jordan's weak high fade they'd seen all day and reiterating that the shot had to be a draw to take the water out of it, seeing that Jordan had lost it for a time after the 12th tee shot and understanding the value of giving him the exact yardage he wanted plus the time to collect himself by pacing off the distance to the water. So no, I won't say our golfers are any better at performing under pressure........ but perhaps our caddies are ? I jest to a certain extent, you have some awesome caddies over there but I could not believe what I was seeing in terms of a caddy not being in a position to see what was happening. In terms of the yardage thing I've been following a player in a tournament before now (friend of mine) who was out of position after a tee shot on 18. No GPS allowed, the player turned to the caddy who looked to be struggling and said "Just give me the yardage." Caddy said straight away "173 to the middle of the green." Not 170 or 175 but 173. Player got down over the ball and put a committed swing on it but none of us saw the outcome until we walked back towards the fairway and on a bit - the ball was in the middle of the green. When the player asked how the caddy had known it was 173 he laughed and said he'd had no idea but a committed swing at 173 was better than a uncommitted swing having said he didn't have the yardage.

It's a good point: 8 strokes better than the pre-cut field (including those that left their game at home this week) vs 5.7 strokes better than the post-cut field, I'm stuggling to see which is better. Tougher conditions on Thursday, more pressure on Sunday - I know which Spieth found trickier but not sure which round was more 'difficult'. Here's a thought, many sites are saying what a shock win this was. DW was actually the number 1 ranked amateur in the world just before turning pro. Could it be that it just took him a few years to make the transition from amateur to pro? Justin Rose was the same. One of those 'time will tell' things but having followed DW since he was an amateur I'm not as surprised as some. Random anecdote - one of my neighbours took Danny to Turkey a few years back to play as an amateur. Walked his son to school this morning with my kids. Many of us have followed DW for some time, this win is not the shock it is being portrayed as in some areas of the media. Want a seriously wierd coincidence or two - that neighbour lives 9 houses from me. Mid way between us (well 4 houses from me, 5 from him) lives a guy who started the Faldo Series with Nick Faldo And ran it for some years (a series for top junior amateurs in the UK) obviously Nick Faldo being the only other Englishman to have won the Masters. This morning I had a good practice session with a pro called Jess Wilcox, she competed in the Faldo series back in 2009. I spoke to all 3 inside 20 minutes this morning. I simply could not make this stuff up :) Could you argue that that is precisely what a Major is meant to find out - they're all great golfers but who can perform when the pressure is on?

No probs.

They show other views sometimes, with the golfer swinging towards you is sometimes interesting, this was the first I came to though:

Will get some later. The kids are in the middle of a movie with some friends - there would be a riot........

Yep Sky Sports and we had protracer on several holes. Also had some nifty 3D graphics of the holes in virtual space floating in front of the presenters which was cool to see the elevation changes which was new. The one I liked most was what they called 'Sky360' of players swings where the player just kind of appeared next to the presenter as if they were standing in the studio and they could see his swing from different angles, just looked like the golfer was there. Butch Harmon did analysis on several swings using this. Was pretty cool.

That's fair, I am from the UK, but I meant that the view expressed by the US media is because Willett isn't well known in the US, not because Spieth is from there.

Do you mean "inside the US....." rather than "outside the UK......." ? The European Tour plays all over the world and DW has won on several continents. I may be biased as DW is from my neck of the woods (50 miles from where I'm sitting) but are you sure your views aren't just a tad 'insular' ? I heard of Danny Willett an awfully long time before I heard of a guy called Jordan Spieth. You're right that Spieth will bounce back though. I like his chances for one of the other Majors this year.

$1.8 million should soften that particular blow a tad :) Besides he does deserve it. Aside from being a really nice lad (don't know him but know people who do) he took the pressure and performed. Others didn't. On a different note, 5 Englishmen in the top 10 isn't too bad.

Not often I'm right so will make the most of this one. Couple of quotes I made on here, first from 2012 second from 2014. I won't quote the article where someone used Danny as an example of 'who's ever heard of these guys?!?!' Many of us had and saw this coming a mile off :) +1 Have always been hugely impressed with Jordan Spieth and this reinforced that view. Seriously good roll model IMO.

Yep. I also throw in a bar with a spring in it I use to increase strength in my lats (and wrists and forearm strength) and Sit-ups. Between those and the 3 you've mentioned I think the 3 tests TPI do are pretty much covered. Obviously I do general strength and conditioning work as well.

Hi @Alx . I totally agree that you need to work on general strength but I do think throwing in some golf specific stuff can be useful depending what your personal goals are. The bottom line is it's easier to score in golf if your second shot into a par 4 is a wedge not a 6 iron and the par 5s are in range in 2 - golf is largely (or perhaps all) about reducing your distance to the hole with each shot. If you want to compete with the 'young guns' out there in the mini/developmental tours (which I do) you've got to be able to stand toe to toe with them. Added to which increased distance off the tee is never going to hurt your game no matter what your goals. What I found interesting was what 'golf specific' can be. The Titleist Performance Institute are pretty much the world leaders in this field and they say they need the scores of all 3 tests to estimate potential swing speed. You could have a great vertical jump but if you lack power in the triceps you would perform worse in the seated med ball chest pass. TPI would say your potential distance off the tee was limited compared to someone who performed the same in the vertical jump but better in the chest pass. If you had no strength in your core you wouldn't fair well in the sit-up overhead throw so again TPI would score your potential distance off the tee as being lower. By working on overall strength but targeting those areas I've increased my distance off the tee considerably. You said in the Dan Plan thread that you were surprised that Dan didn't appear to have put in a great deal of work on the phys side. I don't know how much he does tbh but I do think that if you want to have a shot at this kind of thing (and my personal goals are a significantly less 'lofty' than Dan's - what we call a Developmental Tour, basically equivalent to the Alps Tour, vs PGA Tour) you need to work hard but you need to work smart as well. Pro golf is full of smaller guys (than me) who hit the ball a mile because they train hard and use what they have effectively. Interesting. I think there's a lot of information out there about how to train to increase distance off the tee. If you're willing to work at it a bit, and as I said above, work 'smart' I'd say pretty much anyone can make gains in this area.

Had every intention of not posting for a bit but thought I'd just make one quick post as it's about something guys could work on over the winter if they choose to. Actually it's kind of prompted by failing to post the info on another thread for reasons that escape me but hey ho, no issues, I'll write it here instead It's basically all about driving the ball further, something that becomes increasingly important the higher the level you play at or aspire to. A while ago I saw this vid posted on TST: I At about 2:20 the vid talks about 3 tests that TPI can do to predict the potential ball speed you will be able to generate given a solid technique (centre strike etc). The tests are a seated chest pass of a med ball, a situp overhead throw of a med ball and a vertical jump. This got me thinking so I chatted to Randy (as my 'sanity check') about it to see if he thought I was way wide of the mark. My question was, if TPI can do 3 tests that will predict your potential ball speed ie the club head speed you will be able to generate, then surely if you specifically train for these tests it stands to reason that you will increase your potential club head speed and so gain distance off the tee. At the end of the day if you score higher in these tests then TPI would predict you could hit it further and they know a darn sight more about it than I do. With this in mind my phys programme has looked at all areas but for a while now has 'majored' in areas that would at least in theory increase my score in the TPI tests for potential ball speed. Lots of bench pressing, situps, working on the core strength in my lats and lots of squats. I also spent a lot of time on an exercise bike building strength in my quads and calves. The result? This is my latest gap test from a couple of days ago. I wanted to share the results as it was triggered by something posted by another member on here and even if I crash and burn in my personal challenge (still the most likely outcome) it'd be good if I can pass on the odd thing that actually works to guys on here along the way. It also shows that if you put in the work you can get the results - that was the point I was trying to make on the other thread although I guess it was misunderstood - no snags as I said

Was sent a link to this thread by another member. Was due to be leant a DST club tomorrow but don't think I'll bother. Thanks for the descriptions and vids, Erik.

Told myself I wouldn't respond, but came back on to answer a couple of PMs and frankly my curiosity got the better of me so I checked this thread. Phil's right, no one has hurt me. Erik and I have chatted via pm and there's certainly no hard feelings on my part. Am I like Dan in that I like supportive comments more than critical ones? Yep, guess so, it's just in my nature (and possibly in everyones?). Am I running away? You really don't know me all that well, Phil (hope the smiley emphesises how I mean that). I've come to blows on here before simply because I don't back down. I'll go on arguing and getting annoyed well past the point when I really should just walk away. It got me banned before and did cause bad feeling. I do appreciate Erik's advice (as I have said quite a few times) and the last thing I wanted to do is have a repeat performance. So I said sorry and walked away. If you see that as putting my tail between my legs and running that's fine I guess ....... but it's not really why I walked (not ran ) away. After our little 'debate' on the swing thread I went to see one of the coaches at our National Academy. We had a good talk as well as a lesson and we've got a way forward for the winter. Will it totally agree with how everyone (experts and others) on here would have me look at things and try to move forward? I'm guessing not as everyone and every instructor has a different take on it. So I've got a choice - post up what I'm working on with my coach (who's coached guys who've played Walker Cup, National Level Amateur (ie England players) and on tour) and spend my time on here arguing about whether it's the right approach and be accused of not taking advice when I go with my coach? Or get my head down, put my trust in my coach, try what he's telling me to do and see where we are in the spring. I'm choosing the second of those options. There really will be nothing else going on over the winter other than fitness work and swing work anyway. So no hard feelings Phil but no, I'm not running away with my tail between my legs because I can't take criticism. Look at Erik's analysis of my swing a few months back and decide whether I could take criticism. It was all true, didn't mind in the slightest I'm looking at what I think will benefit me most over the winter which is to listen to one instructor and take one route (hopefully!) forwards. I've chosen the one that can stand next to me here in the UK but that's no slight on my opinion of Erik, Mike or anyone else on here. I just don't think at this point trying to do what several instructors are saying will work, I'll end up tying myself in knots! So cheers all, either Randy or I will keep you posted if you're genuinely interested, he knows what I get up to on a weekly basis anyway. As a 'snippet' I spent yesterday afternoon in the swing studio with a Tour Pro called Rob Harris. Amongst other things he wants me to try a thing called a DST club and he's lending me his next week. It's been used successfully by quite a few guys on tour and should help with a few things both Erik and Mike (and my coach) have said I need to work on. Like I said Phil, no hard feelings just feel I need to get my head down over the winter. Gotta run (kidding, clearly......)