kurtbayne

thanks again guys, good advice

I'm the poster: Thanks for the replies guys. Sounds like I'll be at the range first. (BTW the new range looks FAAAAAANTASTIC it looks like it's about 600 yards long and you can land a hundred private planes to boot. My only beef is that it looks into the morning sun.) I think I'll walk a few holes with the early groups, then go to 18 and go backwards, and then follow someone on the course back up to 18. And I'll bring a camera (and a ladder?). Psyched to go after seeing the course again. The only other tournament I've attended was when I watched Annika's 59.

A couple things after re-walking again 1,2,3,16,17,18 last week I noticed a couple super-small bunkers next to the green or maybe IN the green. They're like if you sunk a hot tub in the green and filled it 1/3 of the way with sand. DANG ! I presume they can do unplayable lie from the bunker, right? Another thing I've yet to see mentioned is the overall layout of the course, gallery-wise. The course is basically a hollowed-out sandpit. More specifically, it's like if you cut a bowl in half vertically and the cut edge is the edge of the ocean Kinda like half of a stadium. This means that if you are perched on the upper third of the course, with binoculars you might be able to see every shot on every hole. If they wanted to, it looks like they could seat 200,000 people above the course. WOW ONE THOUSAND PORTA POTTIES ! How loud could it get? I'm thinking it could get loud in Seahawks land. And the weather: Typically I say there is a 30-40% possible it could be windless, drizzly, 60-degree weather. There's really no way of knowing what course the pros are going to face Plus we've had a weird warm dry winter up here, just the opposite of what the midwest and east coast has had. So does this mean hot dry mid-June swirling winds, impossible greens, Or a rebound to marine-layer drizzle making the course super-long? Or both or neither?

I'm a local who is gonna get a $50 ticket for a practice day. Firstly, is there one practice day that is better than another? I personally don't like a lot of crowds. Secondly, can any golf nerd recommend a golfer or two for me to follow? I'd like to follow someone who is not a "star" but someone who is good at staying out of trouble and has good course management skills. I was able to walk 2, 3,16, 17, 18 last week, and the back back tees are just stunning. As a non-links player, for example, the flagstick looks like it's 900 yards away. Thanks for your answers

I'm no expert, but I'd say your swing is basically fine, especially for a 20, and nothing really bad stands out, other than the ignorance any normal amateur (including me) has over the elements of the swing. IMO you won't find the secret answer posting your swings. Just keep learning about swings in general and experiment with different variables. Be patient, keep smiling, and follow the rules.

In the Seattle area here, 35-45F now that it's winter, I don't really notice a difference in carry. Roll is another story. Restrictive clothing for me makes little or no difference also. I do hit far, and have not-so-good distance control, so that might be a factor. A fat shot is a lot more catastrophic in acres of mud, tho. Also I keep an extra ball in my pocket to warm it up. I hate driving cold balls, it makes me feel like I'm going to hurt it more, like a hammerblow on icy cold fingers. I don't pooh-pooh low compression balls this time of year, and I don't really see any difference between any ball this time of year. Whoops bad grammar there

i'm thankful i'm not burned out, after a ton of golf this year. Also thankful that my right knee, which got pretty loose and screwed up, is sloooowly starting to get better. You hate to get hurt and then have the feeling that this is going to be as good as it will be for the rest of your life

my guess is that the answer is all over the map. Yes there's fun, but is it grinding fun, WTF fun, I hate this game fun, I gotta win fun, fun failing, fun succeeding. And you can do all the above and enjoy it or not enjoy it. Or enjoy it sometimes and not at others. If I had to guess, top tour PGA players are a different mental/emotional/spiritual animal, and my guess is that there's no yippee-I'm-having-fun-yay walk-in-the-park effortless fun For most top pros there's a lot of stress and most people would not want to think the things that these guys are thinking. Pretty grim, actually. But then again, most of these top pros wouldn't want to be anywhere else. Different strokes for different folks, and those stressed-out pros don't want or need any pity. This is for men. I would think women are more, uh, on the normal scale, but I bet there is still a lot of the above going on. Of course there are a few life-is-good happy-warriors without much stress. I would say these tend to be long-time veterans or kids just coming up.

75yd SW from the rough - nothing but net. Always wanted to do that, lucky i was above the hole so I could see it in.

PW - my first PW par 5 was after just a OMG drive like 350+, 70 over my average. level hole, but a slight tailwind and a GREAT first bounce. I was so out of my comfort zone that skulled my PW into a trap, then fat into the next trap, and up and down for a par

I also broke par for the first time this year I'd love to hear if you can remember what your thoughts and plans were for the round and how you worked on them during the round.

not that i go here often, but i've never seen a thread on this subject and i wonder what advice others have on this. and i also have my version of advice that might help golfers in this situation which i call TWILIGHT ZONE (TZ), a term from an old TV uh sci-fi horror show i guess i'd call it? The short definition of TZ is where your round is going soooo bad, often seemingly from nowhere. TZ has elements of (1) a nightmare (2) a bad acid trip (3) nuclear-powered WTF and unreality (4) fly-in-the-spider-web struggling and despair This is the real deal. This is not like the normal perplexities of golf, like ALMOST making a bunch of putts and not sinking even one, or for some reason I can't draw/hook a fairway wood, when usually it's all I can do NOT to hook/draw a fairway wood. True TZ is Alice-in-Wonderland, hair-on-fire, please God i don't wanna die!!! You're wandering lost in the jungle, nightmare-drunk, emotions are dailed up to 11, your cell phone is dead, and your fortune cookie is blank The most unbelievable things are happening. Examples: (1) You get an 8 on an easy par 3, and looking back, none of your shots were really that bad. Yet you could have putted left-handed from the tee and gotten at least a seven. (2) You duck-hook 1 inch OB left. So you reload with a little less hook, then proceed to banana-slice it 1 inch OB right. (3) Fairway wood, tight lie, you get under the ball and it squirts straight up, yet no indication that you've even touched the ground with the club. (4) You hit the green, ball spins back THRU the trap and into the water. (5) Your first shank in a decade hits a tree and bounces behind you and hits the club president in the face. In this bizarro world, hooks fade, slices draw, short is long, up is down and left is right. ----------------- If any good golfers have managed to blink back the fog of unreality of TZ and found a way to finish even OK, I'd love to hear any thoughts about getting out. ---------------- As for me, this advice I'm giving below is the best I can come up with when afflicted with TZ. (1) GIVE UP. No more beating-in-your-head heroics on the remaining 8 holes to maybe grind out one more skin. Let it go, your round is over. Beating a dead horse is pointless, especially when you're the horse. (2) 5 SECONDS - E.L.S. What shot can even a hopeless retard like you execute right now? I'd offhand vote for a 7-iron or a rescue club that goes half to 3/4s of your normal distance. Maybe even a 30-yard chip. The shot has to be so simple that you don't need to spend more than 5 seconds over the ball. One practice swing, step up to the ball, and swing the center of the club thru the center of the ball. Concentrate on getting your feel back -- swing E_ASY, L_IGHT, AND S_MOOTH (ELS). Do the absolute easiest thing you can think of, regardless of strokes. You just wanna finish this round in the fewest steps and thoughts possible. If something even sort-of-works, ride that dead horse all the way to the parking lot. (3) HOW MANY IN A ROW? I suggest you don't, but if you absolutely need to play a game, the game should be: how many shots in a row can I hit without sucking? Not how many in a row you can hit well, cuz that game is OOOOO-VER. If you're not sure if your shot sucked or not, then it sucked. (4) GIVE UP AGAIN - often, after you've given up, things will start to go right again, you'll sink a lucky long putt, or your 2/3s shot goes just as far as your previous retard-hero shot, and it felt great and you're thinking; man let me roll the dice one more time, i might be ok now. And my answer to that is HEY-LLLLLLL NOOO. Your only goal is to leave the 18th hole without feeling like the stupidest, crappiest golfer that has ever lived. If you can leave the round somewhat sobered up, with a lesson learned, and a modicum of confidence about your next round, that would be fantastic. BUT WHAT ABOUT MY SCORE??? you know what? my experience is that my give-up score is generally about the same as my fly-in-the-spider-web-struggle score. But let's say giving up is 10 shots worse cuz your course is just a big cow pasture with 18 flags. So what. Your job now is to NOT fly straight into the web in the next round. While you finish your round with easy swings and clearer thoughts, you'll have a lot better chance of figuring out how not to get trapped next round. Getting into and out of the Twilight Zone is not about swing mechanics, or course management, it's a state of mind. ---------------- Offhand, this is what comes to mind for my best advice. And I'd love to hear any pearls of wisdom that might help me recover better next time. Thanks for reading

good thread idea a few i've used this year, my first serious golf in 20 years SO BAD IT'S GOOD - rather self-explanatory. e.g. a slice so bad you're sweet in the other fairway, a skulled sand shot that skyrockets over the lip and lands close to the hole, a really pulled putt that goes in the hole cuz you're as bad at reading greens as you are at putting. sort of like 2 or 3 wrongs making a right. JENNY CRAIG [swing] - hit it fat, then thin, then fat, then thin, etc FATTY McFATS-A-LOT - you constantly hitting fat when you know better [AHHH] F**K S**T P*SS D*MN H*LL - this is stolen from another golfer. Instead of swearing loudly or otherwise acting out after a poor result, say the five magic words very quickly and rather softly, conversationally, in an "oh well" + disappointed-again fashion. If you are known as a hothead a-hole, this juuuust might work for you to upgrade from "PSYCHO-BABOON" to merely "ANNOYING." It'll likely take some practice. OH GOOD IDEA - SNEAK UP ON IT - This is a variation of the Alice putt. His 20-foot putt is 7 feet short, and so you validate his putt. "Oh good idea, dude, sneak up on it." Like that's the smart play, lay up really short on the putt and maybe the hole will let its guard down and he might accidentally make the 7-footer. In fact, he should probably lag the 7-footer to guarantee the 3-putt, cuz of how he's putting. Just get it close; baby steps, that's the thinking, don't get greedy. And the thing is, with tricky greens and no confidence, ninja-putting might actually be the way to go sometimes. The problem is so many golfers take this comment the wrong way! I'm just trying to help--really! I'm on your side bro! crap i just had another one but i forgot

250-260, 7 handicap of course earlier in the year, same distance, 14 handicap I didn't read the other posts, but my gut feeling is that there is some correlation between driver distance and handicap, but it probably shows a stronger correlation the lower the handicaps are. Like in the NBA, players show differences in court awareness, shotmaking ability, etc, but every one of them can dunk.

I can't remember if it was this year, but recently I hit two good shots in a row! WOW!

Didn't they give a reason why? Don't you figure it's a speed-of-play issue? That's all I can think of. If a group of competent juniors showed that they could unobtrusively and efficiently get thru a round, perhaps you can get an exemption

When I think of good ball striking, I think of solid contact with the ball with effortless force behind it. An analogy I can think of would be boxing. There's a lot of methods to land a jab to the face of your opponent, but a good "jabber-face-striker" hits an opponent and the opponent's face snaps back with a crispness that so-so boxers can't accomplish. Now this doesn't mean that a good "striker" is necessarily a better boxer, and it's probably difficult for your average spectator to notice a difference between a bad striker and a good stiker, but the guy getting hit in the face will definitely tell the difference. There is also an inference of good mechanics and using your whole body effeciently. So a good face-striker uses his entire body effiently, so not only does he hit with more force, he can perform a lot more jabs before his arm gets tired, since he is using his arm less as a motivating force and more of a conduit of force between his legs/torso and his glove when it contacts the opponent's face. Now some people will say a good ball-striker not only has the above, but also can consistently control the trajectory and shape of ball flight in general. The next step up I think would be someone who can steer a ball under different lies and conditions, weather etc. I suspect that different golfers draw the line at different places. I simply stick with full-body effertless power, regardless of how well a golfer can control the ball

I would suggest you get the birdie ball version like one of the early posters talked about. I bought a different version a year or two ago, a 18x36 inch square. I've hit tens of thousands of iron shots on this surface, and it basically shows no wear. I use a tee on a different surface so i can't say how it would work for driving. If you're cheap, I would probably just buy the one mat for $90 and if needed you can make like a plywood/rug mat to stand on so you're at the same level

I'll put my two cents into this threadjack. I opine that some of you are too harsh on the keep it simple kid. First of all, I think the spirit of golf is that when a golfer says something is so, you generally accept that it's so. So when he says he regularly hits 290 on the range, you don't simply say well that can't be right you're just a scrawny kid, jeez what a liar. I think that's more classless than a kid bragging too hard on the internet. Then when the kid is called on his honor, he goes to the trouble of youtubing a video of his swing. This tends to make me think that he is essentially honest. I read that he said that he "regularly" hits 290, but for a kid that bashes nothing but drivers on the range, I interpret "regularly" to mean that on a swing that he nails just right that the range markers seem to indicate that he's hitting 290. I'm 55 years old and 5-8 and 185? pounds (maybe 40 pounds of it fat) and I can "regularly" carry low-compression top-flite range balls in WA 250 when there is a slight tailwind and I've hit 50-100 drivers in a row to get in a rhythm. There was a Taylomade demo day a couple months ago and I said give me something that the big boys hit, so he gave me some r9 type of driver and I cleared the 270 yard fence on my second drive, way way up in the air. So if *I* can do it, why not a young kid that's not carrying an extra 40 pounds? Another point to make is that who knows what the range balls are like? Plus he's inland of LosAngeles in the summer and maybe a tailwind? As far as his video swing, I've seen a couple of guys here carry 250 and their swings were utter train wrecks compared to his. Finally, I didn't read all his posts, most of which seemed to be spent defending his honor, but the main jist he was making was that pros hit the ball far primarily because they understand how to use their power more efficiently than lesser golfers. And I happen to completely agree with that. Then he tries to explain his position with a lot of reasoning and jargon and oh by the way I'm a scrawny kid that can hit 290 so I am not just talking out of my ass. I'll restate my point that golfers deserve the benefit of the doubt unless it's just beyond the realm of possibility, and then call them on it PRIVATELY and POLITELY. Golfers are capable of amazing things, like a golfer who carries 270 on one leg. I read an old book that showed a guy on the pro circuit in the 50/60's who played with one arm. I'd advise the kid to keep doing just what he's doing, as long as it motivates him to keep doing it. I think he's essentially got it right.

One problem with driver guy is some of those drivers are LOOOOUD! I should know cuz I'm driver guy sometimes, and should wear ear protection. I personally feel that a golfer can learn a lot about golf by hitting just drivers (although I don't just do that). I have had days where I've hit 700 balls and often hit 200-300. I generally try to hit at 40% or less, with occasional 80%, and hitting mostly at 20% would probably be even better. And I think the driver is the club most people need to master the most. And my theory is that driving is like driving and dunking in basketball. Everyone yaks about how defense and free throws are the most important thing in basketball, but you notice that everyone in the NBA can dunk. It's like, if you can't dunk, you can't play in the NBA. The same goes for golf. We all know that putting and short game is most important, but all pros hit effortless long drives.

Too late IMO. Just "accidentally" miss 2-4 makable putts and call it good.

Another reason for 9-holers shutting down I think is less efficient use of personnel and equipment. If a crappy cheap 9 was next to a solid 18 and shared workers and equipment, that would be more efficient, assuming enough people lived nearby to fill both courses.

If you live in FL and want to do it now - as a NW resident, I would recommend checking out puget sound and elsewhere west of the cascades, although interior BC might be nice if the altitude is high enough to offset the heat. The good thing about west WA in general and in the summer in particular is what it DOESN'T have that so many other places in the US have. PLANTS AND ANIMALS - we have no chiggers, no-see-ums, scorpions, stinging ants, biting flies, poisonous snakes or spiders, poison ivy and poison oak, snapping turtles, alligators, etc etc. We technically have some hornets, although I've never seen any at a golf course. And we have the occasional mosquito, although I've never had to put mosquito repellent on, ever. Some courses suffer from duck shit and goose shit, depending on the water and time of year. Also if you go in the bushes you might get nettles or blackberry thorns. WEATHER - the west NW has quite a lack of sun from mid-Oct thru mid-June (our biggest disadvantage) but the summer and early fall is great. No hurricanes, lightning storms, hurricanes or severe wind, hardly any rain at all, let alone big rains or flooding. And lastly, basically no heat or humidity. If the heat gets above 80-85, the locals generally consider that too hot and go inside and bitch. At my home course at Camano Island, WA (sort of a rain shadow about an hour north of Seattle) I've played golf almost every day this year, and have not needed an umbrella or a golf glove (although my grips were slippery for a few holes a couple of times). I've never put on sunblock while living in the NW. Or mosquito repellent. However, I should put some skin lotion on but I'm lazy. In other words, if the law allowed it, you could generally play most of our courses pretty much naked and barefoot and be reasonably comfortable and happy. Well, since you haven't done much naked golf, I would say you could certainly play without a sunburn if you played with socks, boxer shorts, and a floppy hat. Or surf slippers, beach shorts, tee shirt, floppy hat. I bet some courses would let you play with that. A typical summer golfer could play a typical round without a drop of sweat. If you wanted specific cheap and/or good courses, just call a few local golf pros and you'll get recommendations. I forgot: Western BC (vancouver and the western islands) are also excellent this time of year. Their weather is worse than OR/WA during the rest of the year but somehow during the short time of July/August, BC really shines, and you get the experience of being in a different country without 90% of the hassles that go with it.

Two main pieces of advice: (1) THE STUDENT MUST BE PATIENT. I think a lot of golf failures come from unrealistic expectations that golf is easy to understand and execute. Tell him that 99% of golfers don't really understand what it takes to control a ball and that 99% of balls hit on a golf course don't really go where they were intended. People want magic secrets that instantly result in good golf, just like people want thinner thighs in 30 days or a foreign language in 3 weeks. All this is garbage. What if you were raised in China and your uncle said "hey I'm going to China next month. Since you grew up there, can you give me a few tips on how to speak Chinese?" And they expect to speak Chinese in three weeks from you or from listening to tapes? There are millions of CHINESE in CHINA who can't communicate well. I equate learning golf to learning chinese. Most people will spend decades playing and learning golf without effectively "communicating" the ball to the hole. And like learning Chinese, millions of people START to learn golf/Chinese, but few actually FINISH learning golf/Chinese, often because of unrealistic expectations. I would talk to your uncle and say "why do you want to try golf? what are your expectations? do you have any goals?" and I would talk to him about why you play golf. Tell him that golf is a lifetime sport, and one reason that it's a lifetime sport is that you'll spend your entire life wondering why your ball isn't going where it's supposed to go. 2. THE TEACHER MUST BE PATIENT. I hear a lot of amateur teaching on the range. A common fault I see is too much information to the student too quickly. The student simply cannot accommodate the firehose of information that teachers inflict upon them. It's like you go to someone and say, how do I get to the mall? and get 3 paragraphs of directions. How the hell can you possibly keep that all in your head? It's usually better just to say "Go about a half-hour that-a-way and then ask somebody else". So instead of BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH swing BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH swing it should be BLAH swing swing swing swing swing swing swing swing swing swing swing swing swing swing swing swing swing swing BLAH swing swing swing swing swing swing swing swing swing swing swing swing swing swing swing swing swing swing This is hard, because every little thing about a swing is connected to every other little thing about the swing. Just having him watch you swing for a half-hour might help. Having him watch other golfers flail about on the range can also help. Your uncle will make a lot of errors. Actually he'll do nothing BUT errors. But as long as they are a variety of different errors, I would generally leave him alone. If he's making the same error over and over again, day after day, and it's his most important error, then I would briefly address the issue as best I can. One more thing: You are fortunate to have started golf young. Golfers who start young have a clear advantage in speaking fluent golf later in life. Your uncle will not have that advantage. His golf will be unintelligable at first, and then horrible pidgin-golf, and then, if he sticks with golf for years, he will still speak with a foreign accent. Keep this in mind when you start to think "HOLY CRAP, my uncle is a golfing retard!" and "HOLY CRAP, teaching golf is reaaaaaly hard!"

I agree that you are impatient. You can't change from an out-in to an in-out or square swing with a few buckets and expect not to have a learning curve. Wouldn't you hit a 100 buckets to have a squarish swing that even remotely works over the out-in fade-slice that brands you as a hacker and not a golfer? As far as doing a variety of errors on the range, I actually think that having a variety of different mistakes when learning a new swing is a good thing. My opinion is that a lot of different errors = more stuff wrong, but in the long term, you will have a better swing. I would not try to fix any of the errors that crop up, just concentrate on the new swing. I suggest that you take attention more off your hands and arms and concentrate more on learning how your body feels with a more square swing, and smile thru your mistakes. You want get your mistakes out in the open on the range, rather than pridefully papering over your weaknesses, only to have them surface on the course. Now if you are hitting fat fat fat fat fat, etc., then you probably want to address the fat issue more. Also you don't need to do 100 buckets of full swings. Doing half swings can also teach you a lot, even 40 yard pitching wedges and maybe even some chips can be instructive in getting a feel for what is generally considered to be the superior swing path in golf.