Kletus

Not nearly as far fetched as you may want to think. The speed and feel of a ball as it comes off of the putter is the major factor I use in what ball I use. Some of it is surely mental, such as how the sound interacts with your brain and changes the way you may feel about it. However, I can tell a big difference between the way balls putt, and some of them just simply don't work for me. I'm fine with a ball that I'm consistently long or short with.. but some balls I tend to be very erratic and do not putt consistently with them. Those balls go into the shag bag very quickly. Currently playing two balls: 1. Srixon Tri-speed Tour - Tour Yellow. This is my go to ball. Great 3-piece ball at a good price. I finally found a ball that I absolutely love, and they discontinued them. Have found nothing in the Srixon lineup that replaces them, but luckily I can still find them online. Bought 10 dozen at $15 ea. earlier this year. 2. Titleist ProV1x - I play these on courses with faster green speeds. These come off of the putter a little slower than the Tri-speed tours. If I find that I'm hitting all my putts long, I make the switch to the ProV1x and it normally brings my putting speed back where I want it. I bought 5 dozen high grade (not sure of the exact grade) used balls off of ebay earlier this year for $30 / dozen.

I love my Callaway X2hot Pro's. Very forgiving, long, and a flushed shot feels just as good as a pure hit from my old mp53's

Mine has the Date, Course, and hole number marked on it in sharpie. The ball is on the bottom level of my logo ball case (keep a logo ball from every course I play) and is sandwiched between the scorecard from the round my hole-in-one came from and the scorecard from my lowest round ever.

Nice round of even Par! Dang right you need to post it!

Played yesterday and two of my playing partners each found hex chrome on the course. Not sure it if was the hex chrome +. Both balls looked almost new and had no issues when they started playing them. About a hole later, each ball had a slash in them. Once again.. this was just a random sampling from golf balls found on the course.. but we weren't impressed with the durability.

I'm a firm believer in always playing the same type of ball. My buddies love me for it... because I always give them any nice new balls (including) ProV's that I find on the course. I just feel like using the same ball promotes a consistent feel around the greens. I've been playing the Yellow Srizon TriSpeed Tour's for about a year now. A friend of mine gave me a box of E6's and I feel like they play very similar for me (probably around 85 driver swing speed). Now that the Trispeed Tour's have been discontinued I've tried the new Q'stars as well as the Yellow Soft Feel. I like the E6 better than both of these offerings. Other's have noted that the cover on the Yellow E6's seems to be different than the whites.... I've found this to be true with both the Bridgestone's and the Srixon's. I feel like the yellow golf balls are more durable than the white ones. This is probably only psychological, and due to the fact that the yellow seems to mute out any scuffs and dings.... but it's possible that the yellow color has a slight formulation difference than the white. All in all... the E6 seems to be a very playable ball. I haven't had the chance to try the NXT Tours yet.... but so far the E6 is my favorite yellow offering besides the Trispeed tour.

I'm a firm believer in the idea that the less loft you use.. the less variability in the shot. If the fringe allowed I would use my putter. Otherwise I would either choke down on my 4 hybrid or my 7 iron and use a putting stoke. The 4 hybrid putt from around the green has saved me a ton of shots and is very repeatable with just a little practice.

It rained on my clubs while I was playing this past Wednesday... does that count as cleaning them? My course has club washers on the carts. I generally give them a wipe down or stick them in the club washer every couple of shots. Once or twice per season I'll pull all of them out of the bag and give them a full wash. Grips get replaced once to twice per season depending on how they are holding up. If they ever start to feel the least bit slick to me then they are gone.

Fourputt, I understand what you are saying.. but you are missing the point of my original post. Instead of looking at each of my posts with the intent of disagreeing... try actually reading them with the intent of agreeing with me. I think you will find that the context will change some. My original post was referring to a marshall who was adamant about NO MULLIGANS. I made the point that 2 off the first tee for EVERYONE would actually speed up play because it has the unintended consequence of adding the small buffer between groups that most courses fail to implement. I am fully aware that the fivesome's we play at our course wouldn't be welcome elsewhere.. even though they play surprisingly fast. Don't get hung up on the fivesome... or even the 2 off the first tee... the original point was about the buffer between groups. Most courses with 9 minute windows between groups don't actually enforce the 9 minute window. The starter just states "your up after that group" and the next group plays as soon as the group ahead moves away from their second shot. If you actually enforced the 9 minute window... my group (even with 5) would be long gone before it was time for your group behind me to play. If you weren't standing behind us at the tee box watching us tee off.. you would never have any clue that we did anything different than you. If courses would actually enforce the buffer then golf would flow much more smoothly.

http://grandharbor.net/privateclubamenities/thepatriotgolfcourseatgrandharbor

All joking aside... this is a standard afternoon group that consists of 15-20 golfers at a private club. We have reserved tee times and there will be no one behind us. For whatever reason they tend to prefer to play fivesomes vs threesomes. I would prefer 5 threesomes.... they end up teaming up 3 fivesomes. The groups start teeing off a few minutes after 1 pm and we are almost always back in the clubhouse, bets settled and heading to the parking lot by 5:30. Takes about 4.5 hours to get 3 to 4 groups off of the same tee box (everyone hitting 2 off the first tee), get back into the clubhouse... settle bets.. grab a drink.. and head to the parking lot. Maybe I'm wrong... but that doesn't seem like all that slow of play to me. The point that I was trying to make is that most courses don't put enough of a buffer between groups. If you allow groups to follow right behind each other then a slowdown in the first group creates a traffic jam that just gets worse and worse if any of the groups that had to wait end up having issues on their next shot. The ripples move back all the way through the course and play slows down dramatically. The course may get more golfers on the course.. but the pace of play suffers.

I have a couple of different groups: 1. Members of the courses I'm a member of. We have normal times each week where people just show up and play. 2. I carry alot of people out to the course for work.. and sometimes they turn into golf buddies. 3. I've met most of my current social golf crew simply from random pairings on the golf course.

I think we have reached the point where all we are doing is arguing the semantics of specific situations instead of addressing the OP's question. Simply put. In many situations it will be faster to ride. In many situations walking will be at minimum.. just as fast, and in some situations actually a little faster. I personally think that all things being equal... riding will be faster more of the time than walking. However, In real world applications.... very seldom will there be enough of a difference that it will cause either party in a mixed group to be uncomfortable or upset. To the OP.... go out and walk. Try 9 holes and see how you do. You will either love it or hate it and you can decide from there how you want to proceed. If you play ready golf... and are ready when it's your turn.. you should have no problem keeping up unless the course is just poorly designed for walkers. I personally tend to walk during the cooler months for the exercise and to stay loose. I tend to ride when it gets hot.. because walking then just simply isn't fun for me and my health doesn't allow me to take the chance of getting too hot.

1. I would simply have looked at the Starter and told him I was playing my provisional in case I didn't find the first one. 2. If the course is putting any sort of break between groups like they should... then the extra 20 seconds wouldn't matter. 3. My normal friday group plays 2 off the first tee and often plays fivesomes. Yes, it takes a minute or two extra to get off of the first tee... but that also creates a natural space between the groups. I've found that those rounds flow much smoother with very rare waiting because that buffer is there to absorb a slow hole by the group in front. Your starter might be surprised.. but I would be willing to bet that if they REQUIRED everyone to hit 2 on the first tee they would probably speed up play. Of course... there would always be THAT guy that has to look 10 minutes for his topflite in the woods that would still bring everyone back to reality.

I use whatever ball will give me the best chance of striping one down the middle... which is usually the newest one.

A walker playing an open course against people in a cart who know how to use it effectively is going to get run to death during a round of golf. Most of the time though it really won't matter because you will run in to others and end up waiting. Occasionally a situation will occur that will cause the cart group to slow down.. but most of the time they will easily drive to their ball, hit, and then sit back and watch the walker get to his ball and go through his routine. They will then head to the green and be waiting on the walker to get there. If you aren't playing ready golf this will LOOK like the walker is keeping up.. but in actuality the cart group will be spending a fair amount of time on "most" holes waiting. With that said.... in the real world... there are lots of people in carts who have no clue what they are doing. In those cases, or on a course with any kind of traffic for the day... the walker will keep up easily and may even be faster. The answer as always is that IT DEPENDS on the skill level of those involved and the course situation for that day. Walkers will almost always be faster on a "path only" day. To the OP: Give walking a try. I prefer to walk with a push cart, but for the most part I never have trouble keeping up. There are days when I get stuck with the wrong group that I have to hoof it to keep up.. but it's a rarity, and most of the time it isn't a really big difference. I play in mixed groups all of the time and no one really cares. We play ready golf, so if someone is lagging a little the rest of us just go ahead and play our shot. Walking is super peaceful and I probably enjoy the overall experience better. However, there is no way I'm walking the course in the summer heat.

If you are agreeing to allow a breakfast ball then you are automatically breaking a rule. No point arguing that one. If you are in a social round I'm pretty sure that almost no one would argue with you if you announce before hand that you are going to hit a ball into the woods and that you aren't starting your round. If you are playing in any type or organized event... I don't think I would try it, because it could easily bring up a bad situation. My personal opinion is that if you are allowing a breakfast ball then the best way to do it would be as follows: 1. Hit your tee shot. 2. If you are happy with the result then keep it and play it. 3. If you aren't happy then play another ball... but with the caveat that whatever the result of the 2nd ball is the result you have to live with. This isn't perfect for the purist. It gives the chance to get rid of a crap first swing if there was not time for the range... but you also have to live with the result of your shot if you choose to play the 2nd ball. In most cases the player will play the first ball and no rule will have been broken. If you do end up playing a 2nd ball then at least there is the normal amount of pressure (and maybe even more) on the shot.

You sort of got it. I'm not saying that playing by the rules isn't fun. I'm not saying that "serious" golf isn't fun. It is fun. I enjoy it when the opportunity arises. I also enjoy a nice casual round with friends where if I see my buddy accidentally hit the ground with his club in a hazard I'm not going to call him on it. I'll let him know that it was a violation so that he learns.. but no way am I going to assess the penalty even if the two of us have a bet going (different story if its a group bet... because protecting others comes into play). In the grand scheme of things...the statistics of the handicap system will work that shot out. I'm just saying that you need to be objective enough to understand that most of the players out there don't put the same emphasis on following every single rule on every single shot that you do. They have fun their way... you have fun your way. Everyone is still playing golf!! All I've asked in this whole thread is that you refrain from making judgements on those that do it differently. My only issue with the entire thread is that you and others have come across as condescending to others that may look at things differently than you. Be open minded and help people understand the importance of playing by the rules without the absolutist attitude that anything other than the rules is blasphemy. And we DO have common ground on the subject. We both love this game! Let me know when you get back to the states. If you can make it to the upstate of SC I'll treat you to a round of golf!

If we are playing against each other you will know exactly what rules to compare my score by because we will be playing the same. If we aren't competing against each other then I could care less what score you shoot other than to congratulate you at the end. I don't care if you pay attention to my game or scores, but don't fool yourself into thinking that they are any different than yours. I know you want to judge what I do, but it changes nothing. I've already explained above that it does very little to change my index and I understand my game more than enough to know where I stand as a golfer. I know for a fact that unless you are cheating on YOUR index... that we could play each other according to index and have a good match. I have no idea what your life experiences are, but one day you will learn that golf is not nearly as serious an endeavor as you make it out to be. I started this year off by having a heart attack and I can promise you that it changed my outlook on life. Every time I step out on the golf course is pure joy. It's a treasure. Learn to enjoy all of the aspects instead of worrying about judging what others are doing. While there are exceptions... a breakfast ball will have very little affect on your overall scores. There is a whole lot more golf to be played than that first shot, and most of the time the first shot gets used. It is truly no big deal (unless you are competing with someone else). I put down the scores that I shoot. I follow the rules very closely.. but don't get caught up in following them to the minutia. (yes I've dropped where my ball went OB.. but I hit 4 from that spot, making sure to account for stroke and distance). I get no joy out of "writing down a smaller number than I earned"... simply because I write what I scored based on the rules of the game my group is playing. If you want to be so pompous as to try and say that it isn't golf then that's your opinion.. but it doesn't make it right. If I wanted.. I could just not turn in any score that had a potential rules breach in it... but by not turning in most of my scores I would be sandbagging... so that would be worse.. it would be cheating. Somehow I manage to play with close to 50 new people a year as well as with 2 or three regular groups. I find that in almost all cases I'M the one that is most focused on following the rules. I've never been accused of cheating anyone, and we all seem to have a great time playing this wonderful game. We only have a couple of rules. 1. Have fun. 2. If you aren't betting.. play it however you want. 3. If you are betting... here is how we play... don't cheat. I'm willing to bet that irregardless of what the purists here say.... The above is how pretty much every social round of golf in the world is played. I promise. If you relax and let people enjoy the game without trying to judge them.... the golf / time continuum won't be destroyed. You might even one day realize what I mean when I tell you that we are out there to have fun! From my experience on the golf course... 90% is actually very low. It is probably closer to 98-99%. Golf is a complex game in which complex situations arise. In truth... most people don't play tournaments and don't give a crap about following all of the stuffy tournament rules. They just want to play close enough to the rules so that everyone feels like they are playing the same game. I'm extremely happy for you that you found a great group to play with that fit's your style. Just understand that tournament golf is YOUR style. You are actually in the minority among golfers. As I said before... it doesn't make either group right or wrong. There is valid justification for both and a time for both.

Phil could have declared his first ball unplayable and just hit #3 off the tee. That way there would have been no question. Instead he made the mistake of playing a provisional and had to pay the piper once the original was found. and yes... it was a dick move to go look for the ball once he said he didn't want to look for it.

Oh yeah... To the OP: I think a breakfast ball is fine as long as you aren't in a tournament and everyone who is competing agrees to it beforehand. Yes, it will have an effect on your score.. but as long as you understand what that effect is, I don't see where there would be any issue. The other thing to keep in mind is that it is easily a slippery slope to moving from simply a breakfast ball to pretty much playing by whatever rules you want. That's something that your group will have to come to grips with and be careful to avoid. Either way... golf is intended to be fun, so I say play it whatever way your group enjoys.

Great points. I think everyone in this thread would agree that if you are in a tournament you play it as it lies and you follow ALL of the rules to the letter. If I were a tournament player I would want very much for my handicap to be based entirely on rounds that were played completely by tournament golf, because that is the type of competition I would be playing against. However, I am a social golfer. I play with several local groups and spend a fair amount of time carrying prospects or clients out to the course to have fun. I may play in one tournament a year.. and even that one probably has at least one local rule that doesn't exactly follow true tournament rules. I follow the rules as closely as I can, and I spend a fair amount of time on forums such as this trying to read about as many rulings and such as I can so that I know the proper way to proceed if an abnormal situation were to arise. However, I also freely state that 90% of the rounds I play involve some sort of small derivation from the rules such as two off the first tee or gimmee putts inside the leather. The beauty of the handicap system is that even with these derivations.. it does a pretty darn good job of performing its intended purpose.. it identifies my scoring potential. It isn't intended to predict what score I would shoot in a tournament or to provide an average score for me. All it does is identify the POTENTIAL score I could shoot. Since almost all of my rounds are played the same I can watch the movement of my handicap and get a very good idea of how my game is progressing. Of course... I don't need an index to tell me that info. I know when I'm playing well and when I'm not. I find other statistics like GIR, Putts, Fairways hit, etc to be better indicators of what I need to work on. Also, if I were really interested in comparing my rounds I would be way more concerned with my scoring average, mean, and median. Handicap just tells me how good my good rounds are. To truly improve then I need to work on consistency and improving how bad my BAD rounds are. ESC takes alot of that info out of the round.. so index just really isn't the best way to track your scores. I say all of that just to get to this: I have no problem with someone who wants to play everything by tournament rules and establish a completely official handicap. As a matter of fact, I have a ton of respect for anyone who goes through that effort. I have a ton of respect for Fourputt, and I know that he has a ton of useful golf knowledge and has probably forgotten more about the rules than I know. I would love to play a round of golf with him. However, I also find it asinine to suggest that my handicap is "meaningless" and that I am somehow less of a person or golfer because I admit to playing golf in the real world (Which 90% of golfers play in). I have an engineering degree and am now working in the world of finance. If there is one thing I have learned from these two industries, it is that there are no absolutes in life. Every LAW out there will be broken or dis-proven given time. Sometimes it is best to just understand that other people do things differently and have different priorities. NEITHER is wrong. The only problem comes when people outright dismiss any idea that is different than what they believe. I have actually enjoyed this discussion, but it is sad how quickly people on both sides resorted to putting each other down instead of simply discussing the merits of the different arguments.

I'd say that hitting #3 off the tee is the shot I dread most.....

I'm a partner in an investment firm.

Fourputt, There is no reason to be so condescending. I gave no "weak excuses". I simply stated what we already both know if we are honest... very few rounds of golf are played precisely by the rules. A breakfast ball is simply not going to make much of a difference in the grand scheme of things unless you are competing with someone else and they don't agree to it. Otherwise, it tends to get washed out in the randomness that is a round of golf. We've never played golf together, so we know nothing of each others games. You would probably be surprised to see how strictly I do follow the rules and I imagine we would have a great time playing. My scores are more accurate than most and I would be happy to play by the handicap I've established in any event I were to enter. We are just simply discussing a difference of semantics. You are looking at golf from a strictly by the rules standpoint, which I understand and agree with. I am looking at golf from the standpoint that the golf/time continuum won't be destroyed if a group decides to play a breakfast ball. As long as everyone in the group that is competing against each other plays by the same rules... then I see no issue. In the last 4 months I've posted a perfectly legit 79 on my home course. I've also posted a perfectly legit 103 that was only that low due to esc. My game has been all over the place due to life issues. A breakfast ball that may or may not get used surely isn't going to affect my handicap as much as that kind of variation. My index was at 14.9 last month. It has moved up to an 18.9 at the moment and is currently trending to a 16.4 thanks to a couple of good rounds that are back in my old range.