JackLee

I have seen many players make a good body powered practice swing. Then they step up to the ball and swing with their arms and hands, leaving their body movements behind. Then early release, flipping, or other disasters occur. You need a swing thought that will work every time to make the lead side of your body pull your arms, hands, and club down and through impact. You can find free instruction videos about this. I watched one today by Paul Wilson, but I did not like his lower body keys.

There are many like you. Here is a possibility: When you are swinging well, you are swinging with your body. When you are not swinging well, you are swinging with your arms. I just watched a video by Paul Wilson on this, but I did not like his lower body keys. The lower body movements should be subconscious.

"I originally did have a grip where I sort of rotated my club a little anti clockwise, so it was square at address, but was told that it was best to let the clubhead sit neutral at rest (ie, slightly open), and work my grip around that, and let my arm naturally rotate through the swing." That sounds like bad advice to give to a slicer. BTW, irons should sit square at rest. Metalwoods may sit square, or they may have a built in open or closed face angle.

I don't feel like either hand is dominant. A specific part of the lead side of my body is always in control of my overall swing. My hands don't do much until my release. Then they just work together.

If you swing correctly with a body powered swing (body and hands), then the maximum lag will be there. You will not have to think about it. If you swing with your arms and hands, I would not know how to help you with that.

I think that was a double overlap.

I like this one. If you actually cut weeds (or grass) with it, it will encourage an inside-out body powered swing...body and hands...not arms and hands. Hitting an impact bag with a weighted golf club can do the same thing. The club doesn't need to be real heavy, just about the weight of a weed cutter.

How about an appointment with a psychiatrist? Yes, I'm serious.

I have not read anything in this thread except the OP. The first swing is better, even with the loop. The second has an arm swing that gets ahead of the body movements in the downswing. I consider that a fatal flaw.

"The Golf Swing and Its Master Key Explained" by Noel Thomas This put an end to 20+ years of frustration. I have no need for any other golf swing instruction. It is apparently home published and sold only by the author. Who would have thought?

You need to get an accurate measure of your clubhead speed with your driver and with your 5 iron. Then see what shaft flex is indicated for your clubhead speed. You can check that at golfsmith.com. I went to a Golf Galaxy store and they let me use their simulator for free. Other stores and some pro shops at courses also have the equipment to measure clubhead speed.

"You've never done anything to share any information here." Absolutely false. I have explained my swing in this forum more than once. I also have a great many posts here where I have answered players questions without any mention of the instruction that I use. Maybe you have just never considered that the information that I have shared might have merit, so you have just dismissed it as no information at all. That's the nicest explanation I can think of for your statement. Don't bother to reply. I'm sure it would not be worth my time to read it.

Erik, you do not seem to understand how to swing a golf club while making your body movements subconscious and perfect every time. However, it is your forum, so feel free to keep teaching whatever you like. Anyone who disagrees with you is a spammer. I got that. Have you ever wondered why so many players are reluctant to pay for lessons. It is because most instructors and other good players do not know how to make the body movements subconscious, even though they may have lucked into the habit of doing it without knowing it. They certainly cannot teach it because they do not understand their own swings. So, they teach positions, movements, sequencing, arm swinging, etc., etc. Money wasted!!!

Flipping occurs when your arms out race your body movements. You get to the release and your body is not in position to allow you to swing through with a straight lead arm, a square clubface, and a flat lead wrist. So, you must either flip, or close the clubface, or leave the clubface open, or bend your lead elbow, or some combination of these. Your subconscious will do its best to prevent you from hurting yourself. The cure: Do not allow your arms to do any of the swinging. Learn how to swing a golf club with your body and hands, as it should be. I'm wondering why I waste my time with this.

You may be trying to swing with your arms and hands, like I did for many years. I now swing with my body and hands, like I think most pros do. This is usually called a body powered golf swing, but you need the correct swing key to make it work perfectly. So simple, but so sad that only one person that I know of is teaching it correctly in my opinion, and hardly anyone believes it will work until they try it.

After I found instruction that actually told me how to swing a golf club, I got to scratch is less than a year. I was practicing and playing a lot then. Now I don't have as much time and money. Once you get to scratch or better, it requires a lot of practice to maintain it, especially the short game. I think to get there you must be using good techniques, and have fairly good athletic ability. Being in good physical condition is a big plus too.

I think Larry Nelson was 23 when he first started playing golf.

Just another pro who does not know and/or cannot explain what he is actually doing in his swing.

Absolutely. I think of it as swinging down, instead of forward. Even if you intend to hit the ball on the upswing with your driver (I don't), you still must swing down through the lowest point before impact. I also feel that swinging down ensures that I have full extension before and through impact.

Extension. That's the most important difference between the two swings, and extension is not natural for us. That is why the golf swing needs a swing key. Imagine a ball on a tall tee that is almost up to your shoulders. Take a short iron and make some very slow horizontal swings, maintaining as much extension as you can with your lead arm. Keep your eyes on the back of that imaginary ball. Can you feel what is controlling that swing? If you can, you can use that as a swing key for your golf swing, and your lower body movements will be perfect without ever thinking about them, just as they are in the baseball swing.

3 bad replies to my post. The proper reply would have been, "How do you make the lower body movements subconscious?". Well, if anyone wants to know that, you will have to read my earlier posts in this forum. I am tired of wasting my time. I now just read a thread once in a while for amusement.

Why would you even want to think about it? Lower body movements should be subconscious. Hey Erik, just thought I would post a little truth here after using my time to read through this nonsense.

I voted "lessons cost too much" and "other". The "other" is that the player never knows if he will get a benefit that is worth what he paid. If he does not, it may be his fault, or it may be the instructor's fault. Either way, I think it is the fear of wasting a substantial amount of money that keeps many players from taking lessons. I know that was my thinking a few years ago. Then I found some good instruction for $6.50 that told me things that I had never learned in any other book or video. Now, I'm glad I did not spend any money on lessons.

What you guys are experiencing is a rudimentary body powered swing. However, you need something else to make it really good and consistent.