Moxley
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Everything posted by Moxley
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Another good tournament last weekend - not as good as Boston, but another close finish for the teams and competitive for the individual win too. Four aces are dominant!
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For some rare balance on this topic, here a great interview with Rahm : If somebody like this was representing the players instead of Tiger/Rory , we'd have a chance of actually solving this thing in a way that sees the world's best golfers playing together.
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Individually , not a big loss (not insignificant either). As a group though, it's a big problem that gets bigger with every defection. The PGA Tour still has a compelling product, and for fans in some countries that hasn't changed much at all. The issue is that the PGA does not want to have to compete with LIV, and is trying to stop it competing. To do that, they need the world institutions to shut LIV players out , and also keep on board their sponsors. Already, it's hard to see fans in South Africa, Mexico, Australia being interested in the presidents cup, which will basically be a farce this year. The same problem will apply to the majors next year if LIV players are excluded - there are now 4 elite golfers with LIV and a dozen or so players who'd normally be in the field, so the competitions are not as credible without, nor would they attract as many fans. At the same time, Monahan wants to drastically increase the prize money to come from LIV, so the PGA tour's pitch to the sponsors and broadcasters will effectively be "less for more". Not only that, but needs the OWGR, majors and international team competitions to do the same. He's done an impressive job at getting solidarity from the DP World tour & R&A , but at some point the ultimate funders are going to realise that they are being had, and the PGA Tour will have to accept reality and instead work out a way to coexist with and compete with LIV. The 'A' plan to kill LIV has already failed - if it's dragged out, the golf fan will be the loser.
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I think this is a really good haul from Liv's perspective, and a moderately damaging one from the PGAs. Smith is obviously huge , everyone acknowledges that, but Niemann is big too given that his best days are very likely ahead of him. Leishman and Lahiri, though not huge names, add to the haul of players from outside Europe/USA where LIV could really become dominant.
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Overall I agree, and petroleum products is only part of it. Our own sport was already taking Saudi money via sponsorship and holding tournaments in countries with similarly bad human rights issues before LIV. Sure, you can make a distinction and say that the pure Saudi product is worse than the watered down product if you like, but the reality is that it's a lot more blurred than many people will admit.
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You may think it's bad idea and are turned off, but that doesn't necessarily apply to all or even a majority of golf fans. I suspect they do have those guys, and they are probably better than the average Joe at distinguishing narrative from reality. They are probably telling these golfers something like the following : And while I'm sure LIV will go down badly with millions of golfers in the US and Scotland, I'm not so sure that it will be the case in places like Asia, mexico etc. Even in somewhere like USA opinion will ultimately likely divide (rather than going entirely anti-liv) if they have somebody like Trump championing their cause. I think if most of the best golfers end up on Liv - which is not yet the case but the gap is closing - most golf fans will ultimately follow, even if it takes years.
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Definitely. I posted earlier in this thread that I think there's a lot of media manipulation here, and to a lesser or greater extent it works. I think the media is probably extra motivated by the types of human rights issues Saudi Arabia has as they clash with liberal western values , and the PGA is doing a savvy job in leveraging the media to whip up anti LIV sentiment. It's similar to what happened in the Europe with the super league - I don't necessarily think the outcome will be the same because Golf is global , but it's certainly making LIV's job harder.
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One small point - more of the world exists outside of America than inside. I can see how Americans may want to back their own institutions out of patriotism, but those outside of America will be more likely to look at it on its merits, and it's hard to conclude that they don't have a case here. Whether the PR aspect is meaningfully beneficial to Liv is questionable, but I struggle to see how it's damaging to them.
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So, reflecting on the actual golf side of this, I watched most of the last day of last weekends tournament. Overall, I thought it was a much better experience than the first one , and it looks like the coverage is getting better (less putting (though still too much), a bit more tee to green for those in contention) to match. I actually found myself being reasonably taken in by the team contest side of things, as Majesticks were in contention and are a largely English team. I think that sort of synergy between the players in teams will be important, at least in the early days for anybody to care. The leaderboard for the players also felt a lot more like a higher level event than the first two, though the strength of the field is still objectively not too strong yet. Still a few things I'm not sure about (music, no cut), and one thing I really can't stand ( shotgun starts ).
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This is quite something from the Majesticks today, level with 4aces now.
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Yes and no. He would have known the risk, and probably realised that that's why Liv were willing to offer him a lot of money. However he tried to organise it such that his playing commitments wouldn't clash with his responsibilities as captain. Even still, he would have known that this would likely still not be enough, but did so in order that he could highlight that his being dropped was down to political/monopolistic reasons rather than logistical ones. I'd say both have a case to answer - golf fans will be the ultimate loser.
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You say they are not relevant, but that's subjective. They may not be relevant to you, an avid golf fan who watches golf regularly ( though you are setting the bar high as he still gets top 10's and won a couple of times a few years back, long after his major winning peak, and could easily win again) but the same does not hold true for everyone. I think he's relevant to the more casual golf fan who tunes in and sees a leaderboard with names like DJ, Bubba, Koepka etc battling it out. Both the strength and depth of the field may not be as strong as a simultaneous PGA tour event, but when that fan looks at that leaderboard and sees names like Lee Hodges and Michael Thompson on the first page, the Liv offering is arguably more compelling, as they already know the famous guys. They know they wont get all the best players in the first year, so they are finding a different way to make the product marketable.
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I don't know, I enjoy watching women's tennis despite not participating in it...
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I think there has been a lot of media manipulation on this, and I'm not surprised that people are hating on the new tour because they are being fed a constant diet of emotive arguments against it. I don't really like the idea of a Saudi backed tour, but as already been pointed out , the PGA tour sponsors do business with Saudi, we do ourselves indirectly as consumers, and , worst of all, we have golf tournaments in worse places like China. So I'm not personally going to suddenly make a distinction for the Liv tour. Sports bodies, tours etc either ought to be ethical, not for profit, community orientated organisations (we can dream), or otherwise they might as well at least have some competition to keep them honest. I think we're early in this story so we'll see how it plays out. I think there is a world though where the PGA tour and Liv can co-exist together. PGA would have players at or before the peak of their careers while Liv would have players who fit one of several conditions : a) Former stars past their peak, but still competitive and not yet champions league age/standard b) players from countries outside of ryder cup countries, who may care less for the traditional institutions c) B list players who are willing to be flexible and ambassadors for Liv in order to make a lot more money The PGA would be a higher standard, but Liv would have similar or better name recognition. While the PGA tour would perhaps be more interesting for avid golf fans, I could see people like my dad quite happy to tune in to watch a tournament with Sergio, Westwood, Mickleson, Schwartzel etc .
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What a great last day and result, major wins for English players don't happen too often but are always enjoyable. Congratulations Matt Fitzpatrick They were talking about him finding an extra 20 yards off the tee , but he was a short hitter to start though right?
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I agree, Transatlantic flight was not as accessable then as it is now, and players were not as rich then as they are these days. I'm sure many more US golfers would have loved the chance to be the champion golfer of the year.
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Terrific win by the scientist! What an exciting day for golf. Has to be one of the best final day major performances ever, definitely top 5. This guy has everything, the power, the touch and science all the way. Here's to our major champion Bryson Dechambeau!
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- u.s. open
- winged foot
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@iacas , @klineka Thank you both for detailed posts, if I can fairly summarise your points, I think they'd be as follows : 3h isn't a much more difficult shot to hit than 6i 6i (or ones reliable clubs) will sometimes go wrong, maybe more often than anticipated Penalty shots come into play less often than imagined 20y from a poorer lie has a better expectation than 50 from a better lie. Proximity to the hole matters, not just avoiding hazards. There's a lot going on here, and while some of these points seem logical, it's the overall combination and probability of each that matters. What makes me unconvinced is that the conclusion doesn't match my own game - yes, I know , sample size of 1, but bear with me. I play a ton of solo rounds where I a/b test these types of things, and going for it leads to blowout holes too often. Stuff goes wrong when I layup too, but less often and rarely to the same degree. It's not like I haven't tried both approaches many times. I see similar things with other players I play with, although I pay less attention to what they are doing. Now, it's possible that I don't understand my own game as well as I think I do (though I think this unlikely - I devote a lot of attention to understanding it) , and it's also possible that I'm not typical of an average golfer. Either way, there's a disconnect between what you are saying and my observations ,and while I'm always open to changing my viewpoint, I'm reluctant to do so on the basis of PGA tour stats, because I don't feel they are representative of average golfers.
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They do not - I said reliably. I can hit a 6 iron reliably, but beyond that, it starts to tail off. If my 6 iron gets my to 50 yards out, then I need a 3 hybrid to to 20 yards - a harder shot and for what? just being a bit closer. Whether I can get the 20 yard shot closer will depend on the lie and whether I now need to lob over bunkers. I'd take on more risk with the initial shot, to potentially leave myself with another risky shot. A straight shot from 50 to 70 yards, on the other hand, in a good lie (fairway or primary rough), really isn't that hard. How do you know the concept remains the same? Most things vary by handicap level , including shot zones. When the shot zone width widens to the point that it will bring into play penalty shots, the expectation is going to jump up.
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Well, I've Decided to Bag a Dedicated Punch-Out Club
Moxley replied to inthehole's topic in Clubs, Grips, Shafts, Fitting
I actually find it easy to keep the hybrid low - I just don't hit it as hard ,and it never really gets up, but still pops off the face fast enough to make some progress. -
Being in the bunker may be better than being 115 yards out, but I don't really see that as the choice. If I can just about reach with a fairway wood, then the layup would be with a mid-iron that would leave me 50-70 yards. I generally get as close as I can with a shot that I can execute reliably, and does take on the greenside trouble. I also don't see the bunker as the worst case scenario with a fairway wood - the worst case scenario is a ball out of play, with a bunker shot being the middle scenario.
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Yep, totally agree.
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I didn't assume , I said some - these are the cases where not going for is a no-brainer. I still don't often see the value in the ones that a more like the streched par 4's , because the 2nd shot will be over 200 yds, and my shot pattern once I go past the 6 iron (150-155 yds) is going to widen quickly, and by the time I pick up a 5 wood penalty shots are going to come into play as well as the regular 'in play' trouble. But I'm going to be able to hit 7 iron / wedge with good reliability AND sometimes have the option of taking danger out of the tee shot with less club. Not always of course - it depends. Who is Andrew Norrby? is he the UK distributor of the book? From what I've heard the book is great, but I do wish there was a ebook version available because electronic is a format that I prefer.
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Overrated - for the majority of golfers who need a wood (or long hybrid) to reach in 2, they will both poor at escaping trouble and proficient at hitting wedges/short irons , making the layup a better choice for getting par. Short misses are a particular problem since some par 5's have a hazard short, and it's probably the most popular miss. For those who can hit their 5 irons 200 yards , sure, but then that's the minority, and I still feel they'd often only gain a little on laying up.
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Yes, good to see him make the weekend 👍
