Runnin

The only way to see pros fix ball marks is by going to an event in person. On TV they cut away to show as many live shots as possible and I'm thankful for it.

You must have been watching me swing.

In college, several of my best rounds came after I topped the first tee shot and hacked it all the way through the first hole. It seemed to shock me into settling down and playing well from then on and perhaps kept me from getting complacent, which I have a tendency to do. Conversely, bad rounds often came after nailing the first tee shot down the middle. But maybe that's just the nature of golf. Now I've lived long enough not take 2 or 3 good holes for granted and know the wheels can come off quickly. And there are gonna be bad shots. You can use them for immediate feedback to get back on track. Stoicism has a lot to offer golfers, imo, in particular, its distinction between external (uncontrollable) and internal (controllable) goals. Winning a tournament, beating your buddy or even making a dead straight 4 footer is not completely in your control. All you can do is what you can do, play your best, get the ball started online with the proper speed, etc. Seems to me that golf is a battle between the process and the result. The trick is to stay focused on the process that will produce the result you want. But the genius of the game is the trappings suck you into caring too much about the future outcome. You don't want to hit your first shot OB in front of a lot of people. You do want to hit a good one down the middle, or at least in play. But in order to do that you are going to have to stay focused on the process of hitting the ball, staying in your pre-shot routine, staring at your target, keeping good balance, hands low, clear the left side, finish pretty, swing your clubhead at least 123 mph, etc. For me, that's all mental because I already know how to physically do those things, except for hitting 123 mph. Now it's more a matter on not doing the bad stuff. I think Eric Clapton said about learning the guitar, the first 10 years you learn what to play and the next 10 you learn what not to play. I think golf is like that. At first you learn what to do and at some point it becomes an endless process of simplification.

The baseball grip has gotten me out of some bad habits. I think slicers could benefit from experimenting or drilling with this grip. It will really force you to come more from the inside because if you don't you're gonna get a pull hook. I think it also guards against early casting for the same reason.

I've been using the reverse overlap grip (putting version) for chips and pitches 80 yds and in all summer. Now I'm experimenting with a one finger reverse overlap for full shots as well and love it. I thought I was the only one in the world gripping this way but not by a long shot, apparently. Many seem to like it too. For short shots I think it's far superior to a normal grip. It seems to keep the right hand from releasing. I like to hit a little cut shot on short shots so it's perfect for that. But I'm really surprised that a reverse overlap feel so good for full shots too.

I miss persimmon woods.

Yes. Make your practice like play and your play like practice. I always save the last ball at the driving range for a do or die test, usually a 7 iron for me. I imagine I'm at the Pearly Gates and the angel asks me what I did in my life. I say I played a lot of golf. He waves his hand and a green appears about 155 yds away on a cloud. He gives me a 7 iron and says if I can hit the green or the fringe I can enter Heaven. If not, down below. Anyway, whatever scenario you want to make some pressure and have some fun with it.

I saw a one armed player once who was said to be a bit of a local hustler. After watching him hit a few I didn't doubt it.

Why such attitude from so many? Is this the way you always treat new posters? I've haven't heard anyone give me any reason or supporting evidence for why golf is more physical. According to the poll, at least 1/4 of people disagree. So it's not so cut and dried. And their seems to be a bit of group think going on here that probably has skewed the numbers. Add to that the fact that what a lot of what some people are calling physical, others call mental, and vice versa. I don't think we have a real consensus. According to what I've been able to read about LSW, it's about playing and practicing smarter, aka. the mental game. That sounds about right. Maybe only one million.

It's $77 and $139 on Amazon. I'm sure it's a great book and would love to get it.

I disagree. You're making a semantic distinction. I said why on the first page or so. After hitting a few million golf balls and playing countless rounds of golf that's just my opinion. It's like guiding a blind elephant through a maze. You could say that the elephant is doing all the work but I would say the one guiding the elephant is in control. I really find it hilarious that so many on a golf site would cling to the all physical position. I think you guys just like to argue. Off to practice my short game and my long putts.

I was absolutely going to until I saw the price.

No. I wasn't interested in a debate on whether golf is more mental or physical. I assumed people would say more mental and that would lead to a discussion on ways one might practice the mental side. I should not have started the poll. I apologize for starting a silly, meaningless debate. My question was and still is, what are the practice techniques and playing approaches to reflect that side of the game which some feel is predominant. The Eric Jones videos are really interesting to me. I like the 3 brain idea, which is actually 3 different parts of the brain that control three different aspects of golf - strategic thought, emotion and execution. I think it can be very useful to be able to compartmentalize these often conflicting thoughts.

The mental side of the game is hard to quantify. Eric Jones has some good stuff on youtube on the subject. He talks about 3 brains, the thinking brain, the emotional brain and the athletic brain which does all the work. The thinking brain handles club selection and course management. The emotional brain produces confidence and anxiety. And the athletic brain hits the ball. His 'athletic brain' term might be thought of as purely physical, though I wouldn't myself.

Practice can be boring if you aren't working on anything specific and just beating balls aimlessly. You may not even be practicing. But worse than it being boring, you may be further ingraining bad habits. There are an endless number of specific, fun things to do on the range: -- Get some impact labels and track where you make contact. Post them in a notebook. Try to hit it on the toe, on the heel, etc. Zero in on dead center. (The ball goes further if you hit it a tad on the toe.) -- Change clubs after every shot, like on the course. Pretend you're on your favorite course and go through all 18 holes. Figure out a way to keep score. Give yourself a 2 putt unless you really stick it tight. That's a birdie. Memorize some famous holes or courses and play those. Get a buddy and do it together. -- Pick a wide target and see how many balls it takes to hit 3 draws and 3 fades in your target area, alternating each time you get one in. Write the results in a notebook and see how you do over time. After you improve some, shrink your target. -- Do the same thing with low and high shots. -- Pick out a pin on the range (or specific target) and try to hit one to the right and then one to the left of it, seeing how close you can get without going on the wrong side of the pin. -- Find some drills on youtube that address your swing issues. -- Practice your wedges and short irons with at least two different distances for each club. Hit your wedge in front of the 100 yd marker, then well over it. Hit your 7 iron short of the 140, then over the 150, or whatever your distances are. -- Pick out your 4 most important shots and practice those, 2 balls on each shot, then 1 ball on each. My most important shots for scoring on the courses I play are: 1) 200-220 yds - 3 iron or Utility, 2) 150-160 - 8,7,6 iron, 3) 80-110 yds - the 'long' wedge, 52' or P, 4) 30 yds in - the 'short' wedge - 52', R-90, P, etc. And driver - don't really need it on short and narrow Japanese courses, but I hit it as much as I can. -- Pick out a target 100 yds or under and try to hit a shot to the position of every hour of the clock, with the target being the center of the clock. Dead in front would be 6 o'clock, straight over the target is 12 o'clock. I love doing this. -- Don't aim at the ground, but at places up in the air. Look at the trees in the distance, nets, poles, or whatever is in the background at your range. I've noticed myself doing this on the course too. It helps with my alignment to create an imaginary vertical wall for your target line. -- See how low you can hit your driver, then how high, and still hit it on the face. -- Make a list of drills and things to do at the range and put it in your practice notebook. Keep your notebook in your bag and look at it if you forget. Anyway, the fun is endless. With the price of green fees in Japan, it's my only option.

Those are mental things to me. I like to use the divide and conquer method to give my confidence a boost. 1. Making good contact 2. Direction 3. Distance 4. Shot shaping Making good contact and direction are key for me because tee shots are where I have the most trouble. If I can make decent contact and get it started on line, more time than not I can keep it in play.

This. Over the years we've heard so much about golf and sports being mental but where are the great tips and instruction on the mental side of the game? I've read some books on the subject but so far not by anyone who sounded like they actually played golf. Here's one mental thing that I've done to help my game, imo: While getting into my address position I look long at my target, glance at the ball to get feet and ball position aligned. One more good look at the target and when I look back to the ball I begin my swing almost immediately. This keeps tension from creeping into my muscles by staying too long at address thinking about too many things. It also seems to help me stay more alert during the swing, rather than getting all tense and just hitting a start/panic button. To me, this is part of the mental game and is one way the mind can make a huge difference in shot result.

I take it to mean so much more than that. Course management is all mental. How you practice and approach your continuing improvement is part of it too. Controlling your tempo in your swing and distance on long putts is mental. Why do we even have to practice? So our minds can teach our bodies what to do. But that isn't what I was after in this thread. I was looking for different ways people use their brains to optimize their results on the course. Maybe I should've started a thread on that instead of this chicken and egg debate.

As another poster mentioned, the ball doesn't care where it is. Only the mind does. I will hit bad shots on the course that I almost never hit on the driving range. I can hit beautiful fades at will on the driving range but can't be loose enough on the course to do it consistently. (Might have something to do with driving range balls too, which curve easier.) Obviously we care very much about where we hit the ball so it is impossible to take the mind out of your swing. And if you do take the mind out of it, you do so with the mind. This seems close to the truth to me. When you start playing you are wrestling with the physical side of just learning what "to do". After you've got that ingrained, it becomes more "how". Physical effort more often than not gets in the way of a good swing. After you've hit a few hundred thousand balls and reached a certain level, it's almost all mental.

A little surprised people are so quick to discount the mental side. No one answered why it is that some people with ugly, limited swings can regularly score better than golfer whose physical game clearly looks better? Why do good players every hit bad shots? Why do putters get the yips? Why can't I manipulate my ball flight at will on the course the way I can on the practice tee. The physical side of my game clearly knows how to hit every shot I could ever need? Of course, the physical side is the only side some can claim they understand.

Clearly it's a lot of both, but I've always wondered that if golf is such a mental game, why do players only seem to practice the physical side. And how does one even practice the mental side? I've known a few players, not that many, who didn't have the most athletic or orthodox swings but were really consistent and knew how to score. Were they not better golfers than players with long, aesthetic but unreliable swings? What do these players who learn just enough to hit playable shots know that most golfers don't? Comments? Is the game in your head or in your hands, and how does your approach to improving at this game (or the mythical optimal approach) reflect your answer?

I had 2 in my last round on thick and grainy poa annua greens. Both were from over 30 ft. One was uphill and against the grain. I thought I hit it hard enough to get there but came up 10 ft short. I was first to putt so didn't get a read on the grain. The other was a left to right breaker and I didn't realize the grain was also running that way. Ended up about 10 ft below the hole.

Don't move to Japan. You'll have CTE (chronic traumatic encephalopathy within a year.

Take dead aim on tee shots to the middle of the fairway and forget everything else. (Little Red Book) Stay below the hole almost always, especially if greens are big and fast, even if that means missing short on some wedges. For me, a short chip uphill is preferable to a long, downhill putt. Playing a new course tomorrow. Will I follow my own advice???