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You don't have to be super flexible and strong to do this!!


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"This is great people with little flexibility can play better golf if they get STACKED!!!!

...and this proves it!!"

EDIT...Ok, This video shows that staying more centered will help you make better contact with the ball.

I did'nt mean to start a war here. I just was pointing out that when you get your weight on your right side and then have to get back to the ball

and to your left side, timing this is harder then if you are more centered on your back swing. It has helped me to make better contact.

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Originally Posted by JackLee

Well, I guess this is supposed to be a joke.  You instructors must be getting bored.


How is it a joke?

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Originally Posted by JackLee

Well, I guess this is supposed to be a joke.  You instructors must be getting bored.



Yo JackLee, watch the video again and see his head move a foot back "getting too much weight on his right side" and topping the ball, then in the second swing he stays more centered and makes great contact with the ball!!


Here is a visual.

st1.jpg

st2.jpg

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It looks to me like he is doing the same old thing that makes everyone hit the ball on top or at least badly, he is sliding his hips instead of turning them, on second shot he turns through the hips and then excellerates through the ball with lagging hands for a nice typical good golf swing. That is what a good teacher should see not the stack and tilt gimmic. Just a good take back and turn with the body leading the hands. No I am not a teacher, I have just seen enough good and bad golf swings, many have been mine.

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Originally Posted by EW Starter

It looks to me like he is doing the same old thing that makes everyone hit the ball on top or at least badly, he is sliding his hips instead of turning them, on second shot he turns through the hips and then excellerates through the ball with lagging hands for a nice typical good golf swing. That is what a good teacher should see not the stack and tilt gimmic. Just a good take back and turn with the body leading the hands. No I am not a teacher, I have just seen enough good and bad golf swings, many have been mine.

Yeah, a centered shoulder turn... what a gimmick!

If you have anything constructive to say, go for it. Until then, don't be a tool, eh?

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
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Originally Posted by EW Starter

It looks to me like he is doing the same old thing that makes everyone hit the ball on top or at least badly, he is sliding his hips instead of turning them, on second shot he turns through the hips and then excellerates through the ball with lagging hands for a nice typical good golf swing. That is what a good teacher should see not the stack and tilt gimmic. Just a good take back and turn with the body leading the hands. No I am not a teacher, I have just seen enough good and bad golf swings, many have been mine.


The head moving back so far is causing that slide to happen! The center shoulder turn prevents that from happening = better shot and contact.

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Originally Posted by EverythingGolf

This is great people with little flexibility can play better golf if they get STACKED!!!!

...and this proves it!!


I think this is the 'joke': You have video of guy making two swings one better then the other, but that does not really 'prove' anything. I would assume the guy in the video also hit good shots before he was stacked (unlike the one they choose for the video) and I can guarantee he will hit bad shots after he got stacked . The thing is you can make a good shot with just about any type of swing, lots of examples of that on tour. Hell you'll even see some guy with an over the top move, reverse pivot and flip hit a solid drive down the middle long, if you can repeat that mess, good for you, bust most can't. Some swings are more complicated then others and make it harder to hit good shots. As I understand it the 'selling point' for S & T is that good shots are easier to make and bad swings are harder to make. I mean a well executed S & T swing is not as good as many other swings when well executed (ie. it produces slightly less distance than many other swings), the thing is with S & T you are suppose to be able to execute it well more often then other swings. Golf his about the averages, not what happens on one swing.

I guess one thing that I find funny is that when someone who is supposed to be stacked ,  makes a bad pass at the ball, the S & T camp says it was not an issue of the swing, but rather that it was not executed properly. Fair enough, but when someone makes a bad pass with non S & T swing you can't blame the swing, you also have to blame the execution and then if you want, go on to point out the swing they are trying to do is too complicated and they may better off with an easier swing like the S & T.

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Originally Posted by 2bGood

I think this is the 'joke': You have video of guy making two swings one better then the other, but that does not really 'prove' anything. I would assume the guy in the video also hit good shots before he was stacked (unlike the one they choose for the video) and I can guarantee he will hit bad shots after he got stacked. The thing is you can make a good shot with just about any type of swing, lots of examples of that on tour. Hell you'll even see some guy with an over the top move, reverse pivot and flip hit a solid drive down the middle long, if you can repeat it that mess, good for you, bust most can't. Some swings are more complicated then others and make it harder to hit good shots. As I understand it the 'selling point' for S & T is that good shots are easier to make and bad swings are harder to make. I mean a well executed S & T swing is not as good as many other swings when well executed (ie. it produces slightly less distance than many other swings), the thing is with S & T you suppose to be able to execute it well more often then other swings.

I guess one thing that a find funny is that when someone who is supposed to be stacked  makes a bad pass at the ball, the S & T camp says it was not an issue of the swing, but rather that it was not executed properly. Fair enough, but when someone makes a bad pass with non S & T swing you can't blame the swing, you also have to blame the execution and then if you want, go on to point out the swing they are trying to do is too complicated and they may better off with an easier swing like the S & T.



I am not a S&T; teacher I have seen 1000's of swings and I do like some of the S&T; stuff like staying centered on the backswing etc. What andy and mike have proven is that all pro players do a lot of the same motions in there swing. The only difference is some have different grips, posture, alignment etc. Staying centered on your backswing is a better way to make contact with the ball. You don't have to rely on timing as much getting from your right side to your left, for a right handed player which in turn will make you more cosistent.

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Originally Posted by EverythingGolf

I am not a S&T; teacher I have seen 1000's of swings and I do like some of the S&T; stuff like staying centered on the backswing etc. What andy and mike have proven is that all pro players do a lot of the same motions in there swing. The only difference is some have different grips, posture, alignment etc. Staying centered on your backswing is a better(easier) way to make contact with the ball. You don't have to rely on timing as much getting from your right side to your left, for a right handed player which in turn will make you more cosistent.

I agree 98%, I would switch the word better to easier, but that really is splitting hairs

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First, the video isn't a "joke." Dave did a series of these "evolution" videos a few years ago to show some before and after swings. A lot of people said "you can't S&T; if you're old" and this video was, I imagine, created to show that's just silly talk. I'll post a bunch of Dave's other "evolution" videos at the bottom.

Oh, and I wouldn't go so far as to say this "proves" it or anything like that. That's drastically overstating the purpose and point of the video Dave made.

Originally Posted by 2bGood

I mean a well executed S & T swing is not as good as many other swings when well executed (ie. it produces slightly less distance than many other swings)

That's not really even close to correct. It's not the pattern you'd put together if your SOLE goal was to hit the ball far, but it's got plenty of distance and not one of our students has lost distance, and more than half have gained both distance and swing speed (i.e. distance gains are from increased clubhead speed AND better contact, trajectory, etc.).

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
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I can't stand these people claiming its if its not 100% stack and tilt than its not stack and tilt. I guess that might be true, but not everyone is going to be able to do 100% what S&T; is. But they can still say they are a follower of S&T.; All that matters is that the information on this forum given by Erik and Golf Evolution is great for any golfer, if you only take one thing away or try to encorporate everything.

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Originally Posted by iacas

Oh, and I wouldn't go so far as to say this "proves" it or anything like that. That's drastically overstating the purpose and point of the video Dave made.


I said it proves it on the fact that you don't have to be young and flexible to use the S&T; swing.

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Originally Posted by iacas

First, the video isn't a "joke." Dave did a series of these "evolution" videos a few years ago to show some before and after swings. A lot of people said "you can't S&T; if you're old" and this video was, I imagine, created to show that's just silly talk. I'll post a bunch of Dave's other "evolution" videos at the bottom.

Oh, and I wouldn't go so far as to say this "proves" it or anything like that. That's drastically overstating the purpose and point of the video Dave made.

That's not really even close to correct. It's not the pattern you'd put together if your SOLE goal was to hit the ball far, but it's got plenty of distance and not one of our students has lost distance, and more than half have gained both distance and swing speed (i.e. distance gains are from increased clubhead speed AND better contact, trajectory, etc.).

Iacas did you even read what I said?

Quote:

I mean a well executed S & T swing is not as good as many other swings when well executed (ie. it produces slightly less distance than many other swings), the thing is with S & T you are suppose to be able to execute it well more often then other swings. Golf his about the averages, not what happens on one swing.


How is that not even close to correct? S & T gives up potential distance for better and more consistent contact. If a person could have perfect execution of any pattern all the time, S & T would not be the pattern most people would choose. But we all know this is hypothetical.  If you include all shots made by a golfer in the real world, many golfers would hit the ball as far or farther with S & T, their perfects swing may not go as far, but in theory  they would have less poor swings.

Also Iacas, give your self some credit as an instructor, if  all your students you have had good results, it may be the teacher not the pattern? I know more then a few good PGA instructors that also have never had a student lose distance (unless that was the point of their lesson) and have had most increase distance. Of course I also know a few who don't regularly help their students, include one or two who claim to teach S & T.

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Originally Posted by EverythingGolf

I said it proves it on the fact that you don't have to be young and flexible to use the S&T; swing.



Actually you said it proves they can play better golf if they get stacked. That video does not prove that, just shows that guy making one good swing.

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3 and 5 Wood X
Hybrid original Fli Hi 21* or FT 22*
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Originally Posted by saevel25

I can't stand these people claiming its if its not 100% stack and tilt than its not stack and tilt. I guess that might be true, but not everyone is going to be able to do 100% what S&T; is. But they can still say they are a follower of S&T.; All that matters is that the information on this forum given by Erik and Golf Evolution is great for any golfer, if you only take one thing away or try to encorporate everything.


True, but the issue with S & T is it is a 'branded' swing. If it was just A & P swing philosophies we wouldn't have this issue (and A & P would have a few less dollars)

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Originally Posted by 2bGood

True, but the issue with S & T is it is a 'branded' swing. If it was just A & P swing philosophies we wouldn't have this issue (and A & P would have a few less dollars)



It's branded under duress (initially Andy and Mike wanted to call it simply 'The Golf Swing') but the actual swing thoughts themselves can all be taken separately if needed in as much as a traditional golf swing can be. With a traditional swing you start off with what they class as 'fundamentals' and you learn them until you've got them dialed-in as well as you can do. At that point you start tweaking areas of your swing to create the best swing you can for what you're capable of. S&T; is exactly like that except for the 'fundamentals' are more correct in terms of what history's best ball strikers all have in common.

The S&T; fundamentals cover the majority of the swing which makes the game more accessible to those who have a hard time trying to perfect a traditional swing.

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In watching some of the face on videos in this thread (both before and after), I can see independent arm swings that get ahead of the body movements resulting in a flip through impact.  That's why I thought the OP's post was a joke.  These look like how I swung when I first started over 20 years ago.  I also see swings like these at practice ranges, and the resulting shots are neither long nor straight.

When I hit a golf ball, the back of my lead wrist does not even start cupping until my club is almost parallel to the ground in my follow through.  Oh yeah, I stay pretty much centered, but I do not lean toward the target like some of these people.

I have no interest in arguments here.  I just hate to see struggling players wasting their time.  I just put in a search on Google for "golf swing" and got 6,140,000 hits.  If anyone has any interest in the instruction that I use, you can find it in my earlier posts.

Damn, I have to stop wasting time on this.  I'm gone for now.

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