one vs. two plane swing confusion.

I have been with a total of three different golf instructors over the past four seasons and with each of them, I've asked if they could teach me only the "one plane" swing like I had read about in "Hogan's Five Fundamentals." But instead of improving, my game is getting much worse. I've since discovered after reading "The Plane Truth for Golfers" by Jim Hardy/Peter Jacobson, that they all mixed the "one plane" and "two plane" swing processes together in their instruction.

Even in this forum, I'll read someone asking for help followed with multiple replies that give conflicting information.

For example, someone was asking about weight shift, and some posters wrote to go from 50/50 at address to 80/20 favoring the right foot at the back swing to 90/10 at the forward swing. Others said to stay balanced during the swing, not to think about it, and let the rotation around the spine take care of the weight shift. Both are conflicting, but both might be correct as I think the first piece of advice is for two planers while the latter is for one planers.

So, what I'm getting to is to see if we can all agree to specify the swing style we're using when asking for help, and forward swing advice along with the swing style it's intended to help. It would clarify things and reduce the chance of one of us practicing the wrong technique.

In addition, I'd like to ask for some swing advise based on the one plane swing.

I'm confused with the action of the arms during the range between the start of the back swing and the impact position. After reading Hardy's book, it sounds like the active arms are used to drive the shoulders and hips to the final position at around 90°/45° CW for a right handed golfer. Then, the left hip initiates the CCW turn a slight amount with the following of the shoulders, hips, torso around the spine while keeping the spine angle constant. Hardy then goes on to say that the left shoulder and pectoral muscle carry the now passive arms down to the impact position.

My questions are the following:

1. When, if at any time, do the arms become active again? I ask this because I read a current magazine (I forgot the title) that have images that show Tiger Wood's gradual increase in the gap between the arms and his upper torso as he explodes into the impact position. Is this because of his enormous amount of centripetal force?

2. Hardy states in his book that one of Hogan's written errors in "Five fundamentals" was that Hogan suggested (initiating the forward swing) to tilt the hips out to the left, bring the right elbow down in front of the right hip and keeping it there until the impact zone. Instead, Hardy writes to rotate the hips, torso, and shoulders CCW as fast and hard as you want, with no active arm movement, like I mentioned in my previous question above. When I follow this advise, I find myself in an impact position where my hands and right elbow are behind my right hip. Is this correct?

3. I've heard many say that the pitching and chipping swings are separate styles than the full swing. My brother's father in-law showed me his pitching and chipping technique with little if any body rotation going back and some going forward. He swung his arms actively like I see in a full two plane swing style, and he was very successful. Yet, I have a video from Rick Bradshaw (a highly reputable PGA instructor located in Tampa) where he emphasizes body rotation and passive arms. Again, are there two different styles for the chipping and pitching game? I believe I read one of Isaac's posts stating that there isn't. I'm sorry if I mis quoted you Isaac. Could someone shed some light on my confusion over this?

Thanks for any help

Sincerely,

Mark

Lol golf is a confusing game, but everything people are telling is trying to get you to shift your weight correctly. Some leave out the actual details (let your body handle it) and some put the details in (40-60, 20-80, 90-10). Yes you do turn about your core so your hands through impact WILL be infront of your club head, and ball if you are pretty good . As for swing plane its all about your body structure, some people need 1 plane because they can not physically perform the 2 plane as well. If you are flexible and relatively atheletic you may prefer the 2 plane, while the reverse is true of a shorter stocky person.

As for style of pitching and full swing it all depends on what you want the ball to do. By hitting down on the ball (steeper swing) you will produce shots that will "check up". While some other more mechnical swings will produce very repeatable reliable shots. So you need to ask yourself do I want the ball to check, and hope that I get the yardages right. Or do I want the ball to roll towards the cup in a repeatable fashion. I don't push either choice because its personal, but I like the way spin looks

In the end its all practice, find a good pro, and you might find a good game

1. I feel Hardys view of the arms is that there is no concious attempt to use the arms as a power source. The rotation of the forearms through the hitting zone is necessary and allows the hands to react to the stored up power from body rotation and snap through the ball. If you have allowed this to happen the arms should naturally finish in the position Hardy advocates. I have noticed that I have to allow my right elbow to straighten earlier than pros do. I am not flexible or strong enough to hold my posture and strike down through the ball as well as they do.

2. IMO the two most common chipping methods involve either a style similar to a putting stroke (A) or a style similar to a minature pitch (B). A has very little body movement, works well for bump and run and with 7-9 irons, less spin. B involves more body rotation, carries the ball farther, works well with wedges and has more spin. I prefer B because I believe it is more versatile and allows a greater variety of shots, probably takes more practice though. I have noticed that B method users sometimes fail to turn their their torso and shoulders and hit something like shanks on occasion. People who use method A seem to need to be more aware of keeping enough weight and hands forward, since there is no turn to shift weight. Low handicappers and pros seem to use both depending on what they want to do, based on club, lie, shot type they feel they need to play.