Club Fitting

[Adam C]

23 minutes ago, colin007 said:

Hey @Adam C, do you have any insight or thoughts on these?

Harrison shatmaker golf shaft insert

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golf shaft insert

 

Have not ever used or seen them in person. Can't say I have ever worried about the "S waves" in my driver shaft. I have never seen or read anything suggesting that this is a real issue, but again have not tried them so I won't completely discount them.

[Waddaplaya]

On 6/8/2019 at 10:34 AM, Adam C said:

If you check out my youtube video on cutting dow a shaft, I go through how to measure a club correctly.

 

This is the best step by step club altering video I have seen so far. It is extremely detailed and you explained everything perfectly. You don't gloss over any of the steps which is very helpful for people who have never done it before. 

[Waddaplaya]

If you find a shaft that works for you what ways can you use the specs of that shaft to find others you will like from different companies? Would you take a frequency reading of the shaft and then find another shaft with the same frequency? For example, when I went for my fitting the fitter measured the frequency of all of my current shafts and they were all over the place. He explained that they weren't even in the range of what a Regular flex is. So, if you find a flex you like, how do you pick another shaft from a different company with similar qualities? Is the frequency all you need or are there other characteristics of the shaft besides that? 

[Adam C]

14 hours ago, Waddaplaya said:

If you find a shaft that works for you what ways can you use the specs of that shaft to find others you will like from different companies? Would you take a frequency reading of the shaft and then find another shaft with the same frequency? For example, when I went for my fitting the fitter measured the frequency of all of my current shafts and they were all over the place. He explained that they weren't even in the range of what a Regular flex is. So, if you find a flex you like, how do you pick another shaft from a different company with similar qualities? Is the frequency all you need or are there other characteristics of the shaft besides that? 

Frequency or flex is really pretty far down the list of importance. Some may argue with me, but here is my list of what's most important in shafts.

1. Weight- most important by far

2. Radial Consistency- really the only thing I use my freq machine for. Tells me how consistent the shaft is.

3. Balance point- affects SW and feel

4. Bend Profile- high launch vs low launch etc.

5. Torque/ color- not worth worrying about in general

Flex can really move around on this list much like price. Both can be more important for some people than others. Remember, in the end the shaft only can do what you make it do. It's not an engine, it's not a whip. If you can square the face at impact, you can play any shaft. If you have trouble with squaring the face at impact or you need more launch (although this is better addressed with other changes), then you may want a softer shaft is it could help close the face at impact based on your swing.

So to answer your question, weight is what I would focus more on than flex. Second, making sure it's a good consistent shaft in how it bends. And so on down the list. If you find a shaft you hit well, I can give you recommendations based on weight and bend profile, however this really only works within the framework of that specific club you're using. Picking iron shafts off a driver shaft or vise versa is more unreliable.

[Waddaplaya]

Ok I appreciate that information as well. Another question I have is that with my set of Tommy Armour 845 EVO Cavity irons what would I do if I needed to adjust the loft and lie of the irons? I know that some irons are easy to bend and some irons are not. Could you explain that to me? 

[Adam C]

Those irons probably only have about 1 degree of movement in them in any direction. Any more than that, they may snap.

[Waddaplaya]

Why is that? Why couldn't they be bent farther? The metal used? I've read you can bend clubs farther than that. 

[Adam C]

It may be more but I can't say without them in front of me. Cast clubs in general will be harder and more brittle which means limited bendability. I can't remember Tommy Armour doing much in the forged realm so most club builders will have a tough time with them.

[Waddaplaya]

Ok fair enough... now another question to my endless list of questions. I hit the 6 iron that had been rebuilt for me for the first time today. The changes were a shaft rebuild with the TT XL Lite shafts which, a change of grip to a little larger midsize from a standard I was using before, and an addition of .5 inch to the shaft than before. I like the way the club felt. I have to get used to the length and become more conscience of standing up straighter not to hit fat shots. One thing I did notice that when I make good contact all of the balls were tending to go left. I am not talking about a hook but more of a 10 yard slow draw. It is essentially just drawing too much to the left. I called the fitter and asked if it is possible that the lie angle is too upright and he said by his standard at that length they actually flatten out the lie angle of the club. Right now the 6 iron is set to a 60 degree lie. Is it possible that it needs to be flatter? Is it possible the addition of the length and the slightly softer shaft is causing shots to go left? I imagine it could be my swing as well obviously. I called the fitter and asked him if we could flatten it out and he said it was already a little flatter than normal. 

[Adam C]

I would tell you before anything else, go hit the club again on a different day. Between the change in length, lie, weight, there's a lot going on and it might take a bit to adjust to. Also don't hit it at the same time as your other irons, just get a small bucket and focus on it before you make any decisions. Changing to different golf clubs can be like driving a rental car. At first it can feel awkward, as it's different from what you've been used to. But after you drive it for a couple days, it feels natural. I think too many people have this idea that when you get fitted or change something, it will just be an immediate improvement. While this can be the case, often you have to work with the clubs a bit before the results can truly be measured.

[Waddaplaya]

I will definitely do that. I will say I was definitely making more solid contact with the ball. The shots drawing left were definitely not "mis hits" as in fat, thin, toe, or heel shots. They are definitely middle struck. If I can tame the draw down I would be in love for sure. They did feel really nice. The one thing I noticed is that because they are longer, I tried to stand up straighter and when I flushed one it felt beautiful with more power than normal. I will give them a couple more grass range sessions and tinker a bit. 

[ncates00]

On 6/1/2019 at 10:42 AM, Waddaplaya said:

Hello all... 

Yesterday I went for my first iron fitting. The fitter used a different way to determine the shaft flex that a person needs. They use a measurement of "shaft loading" vs the popular swing speed method. I was basically hooked up to a machine and hit some shots and we determined what shafts I would need in my irons and my woods. The scale they use basically uses 5.0 in the middle as a Regular flex. So I was a 4.6 in my irons and a 5.2 in my woods. So we determined I need a little softer than R in the irons and a little stiffer than R in the woods. They explained that a person with a slower swing speed could still load the shaft higher than someone with a faster swing speed which was interesting. It is also interesting than I need a slightly different shaft in my irons than in my woods. The thing that was really crazy is that he tested the flex of each of my irons in my bag. I brought two sets of irons. I had an old set of Tommy Armours and a newer set of Ping G20s both of which are R Steel Flexes. He tested all of my iron shafts on a machine where he put the iron in a vise and then he pulled the head down and let it go. It bounced around and he got a reading that told him what flex the iron was. All of the irons were so different. None of them were 5.0 R Flex. They were all over the place on both sets. The pings were actually much softer than R in the A Flex range and the TAs were all over the place. I found this interesting because he explained that there are no standards for flexes in golf so a Stiff from company A may be an extra stiff from company B. That is definitely a disheartening thing to realize. Not only is there no standard but literally all of the shafts from Ping were considerably different flexes and the shafts from TA were all over the place. He tested my wedge set and they were XX Stiff. All of the lofts of the wedges were wrong as well. Another thing he tested was the loft of my G25 driver set to 9.0. He measured the loft and it was actually 12 or 13 degrees and when set to the 9.0 (the standard position is 10.5)  this opened the club face 3 degrees. So not only did the lofts not match hosel indication but the lie angle was 3 degrees open when set to the loft of 9, which could explain why I am pushing the driver right. He then tested my hybrid and the loft was off by 1 degree and it was 3 degrees closed. He also weighed all of the clubs and explained that most of the clubs were "shaft heavy" and "head light" which means they were not balanced very well and could make it difficult to be aware of where your club head is during the swing. In conclusion almost every aspect of every club in my bag was all jacked up. What I learned is that: 

1. There is no standard for shaft flexes which makes it nearly impossible to buy shafts on your own

2. The shaft flexes on your set of clubs can vary greatly from iron to iron which do not match the actual flex that they say they are

3. The irons are not balanced properly so you could potentially be shaft or head heavy.

4. The lofts are usually wrong on the clubs 

5. The lie angles can be open or closed coming as a standard from the company (you didn't request it to be so).  

6. When adjusting your adjustable driver you can actually open and close the club face without knowing it causing your shot patterns to change

Mama mia.... I definitely learned a lot through the process. They are going to build one of my clubs to my specs and then I am going to test that one club. If I like it I will get the whole bag done the same way. It was really eye opening. 

 

 

go to a good fitter on a good launch monitor.  play what works and fits the carry gaps you want.