Toe contact

[useless149149]

Ever since about September I have really struggled with my irons. Nearly every shot is out on the toe. I've tried all of my dad's suggestions, but nothing seems to work. What do you guys think is the problem?

[JaY_B]

Ever since about September I have really struggled with my irons. Nearly every shot is out on the toe. I've tried all of my dad's suggestions, but nothing seems to work. What do you guys think is the problem?

Did you get new irons in September, if so were they standard or custom?

How tall are you? Are you making swing changes? How are you hitting your other clubs? Would is be possible to upload a video of your swing? It's almost impossible for us on this forum to diagnose your problem without more information about your golf game and equipment, a video of your swing would also help. Obviously there are simple things that could be the root cause of the problem, for example you could simple be standing to far away from the ball, the recommended distance between your left hand (for a right handed golfer) and your belt buckle is around 5 - 7 inches. The lie angle of your clubs might not suit your swing, this would be a factor if you have recently attempted swing changes. You could be losing your posture during your swing, which again is impossible to tell without a video. More info would help you get better answers JaY_B

[Richie3Jack]

Yeah, check your irons.

Even if they are old irons that you've had awhile, check the lie angles on them. I've had clubs of mine change their lie angle and we figured it was from the driving range I used to practice at all of the time which could get hard as a rock in the summer time.

The other common factor in toe-ing the ball is that you are losing your spine angle at impact. There's some real deep rooted problems there if that's the case. Depending on how good you want to be, there's different ways to correct that. If you're looking for a band-aid, then I would just work on keeping my spine angle throughout the swing. If you're looking to really drop you handicap, then I would suggest increasing hip flexibility because you're likely losing your spine angle becasue your hips don't rotate enough throughout the swing.


The only other minor suggestion is to watch out for ball placement. If the ball is placed too far forward, that can cause toe hits.




3JACK

[tiger_who]

you standing to far away from the ball wich is causing you to reach out for the ball. stand closer and have a tall althetic posture

[JaY_B]

you standing to far away from the ball wich is causing you to reach out for the ball. stand closer and have a tall althetic posture

I don't like posts like this, there is no way you can give that advice without seeing his swing, there could be as many as a 100 reasons he is hitting the ball out of the toe, posts like this IMO are inaccurate and unhelpful.

Definitely get some videos of your swing up, then we can analyse, criticize and fix your swing

[JaY_B]

If you're looking to really drop you handicap, then I would suggest increasing hip flexibility because you're likely losing your spine angle becasue your hips don't rotate enough throughout the swing.

With amateurs I would suggest that the 'dipping' motion of losing height on the downswing is caused as much by a swing fault as it is by a lack of strength in the core muscles, a lot of juniors will 'dip' in the downswing simply because their lower back muscles can not physically keep their bodies up in the downswing.

I would also say the only way for the hips to affect a loss of height in the down swing would be if they moved laterally towards the target in the downswing, causing a reverse C at impact, the hips not rotating in the downswing would provide more stability, and increase your ability to keep your height during the swing, not increasing the chance of losing height. JaY_B

[tiger_who]

With amateurs I would suggest that the 'dipping' motion of losing height on the downswing is caused as much by a swing fault as it is by a lack of strength in the core muscles, a lot of juniors will 'dip' in the downswing simply because their lower back muscles can not physically keep their bodies up in the downswing.

umm no i dont have a 6pack abbs or a really strong back and i keep my body fine and dont dip at all

i hate posts like this they are inaccurate and unhelpfull

[JaY_B]

With amateurs I would suggest that the 'dipping' motion of losing height on the downswing is caused as much by a swing fault as it is by

umm

Trying to find where I said a 6 pack or a *really* strong back was required.... nope I cant find it, what I said if you read carefully was that as is normal with a lot of juniors, they simply do not have enough core strength to hold their body up during the downswing, no 6 pack required! Please no need to get childish, I don't believe my post was either inaccurate or unhelpful, especially in comparison to your post (Post no. 4) which was based on no information what so ever, and therefore is highly unlikely to be accurate. JaY_B

[Williamevanl]

Please no need to get childish, I don't believe my post was either inaccurate or unhelpful, especially in comparison to your post (Post no. 4) which was based on no information what so ever, and therefore is highly unlikely to be inaccurate."

So his post is highly likely to be accurate?

[JaY_B]

"Please no need to get childish, I don't believe my post was either inaccurate or unhelpful, especially in comparison to your post (Post no. 4) which was based on no information what so ever, and therefore is highly unlikely to be inaccurate."

lol... oops

[Richie3Jack]

With amateurs I would suggest that the 'dipping' motion of losing height on the downswing is caused as much by a swing fault as it is by a lack of strength in the core muscles, a lot of juniors will 'dip' in the downswing simply because their lower back muscles can not physically keep their bodies up in the downswing.

99% of the amateurs I see, including very good ones, lose a lot of their spine angle. They may start off fine at say 30 degrees at address and still 30 degrees at the top of the swing, but then you see most of them get to less than 10 degrees of spine angle at impact.

Why? Because their hips are not properly rotated. So what happens is they "stand up" or "bail out", etc at impact because their body simply cannot hold the spine angle with the hips at zero degrees at impact. And because they are standing up at impact, that puts them further away from the ball and causes toe hits and thin shots. 3JACK

[JaY_B]

99% of the amateurs I see, including very good ones, lose a lot of their spine angle. They may start off fine at say 30 degrees at address and still 30 degrees at the top of the swing, but then you see most of them get to less than 10 degrees of spine angle at impact.

I very much doubt that 99% of all amateurs you play with 'dip' in the down swing, But did you also know 45% of statistics are made up, and probably another 28.6% of statistics are over exaggerated to add credibility to an argument

When you say the hips are a zero degrees am I right in assuming you mean the hips are perfectly parallel to the target line at impact, in which case I still don't understand why this would cause a loss of the spine angle, as even though the hips parallel to the target line is not necessarily a powerful position, it would be a stable and controlled one, Can you give me some links to a video or something where someone with zero hip rotation loses height, as I am not saying your lying (why would you lie?) I just can't comprehend how what your saying works, we need ringers opinion me thinks

[Richie3Jack]

I very much doubt that 99% of all amateurs you play with 'dip' in the down swing, But did you also know 45% of statistics are made up, and probably another 28.6% of statistics are over exaggerated to add credibility to an argument

I didn't say the "dip." I'm saying they are doing the exact opposite. They are standing up at impact.

Hell, I see a lot of tour pros lose that spine angle at impact. The difference is that the tour pros still keep that spine angle at the 20 degrees+ at impact whereas amateurs are at less than 10 degrees at impact.

When you say the hips are a zero degrees am I right in assuming you mean the hips are perfectly parallel to the target line at impact, in which case I still don't understand why this would cause a loss of the spine angle, as even though the hips parallel to the target line is not necessarily a powerful position, it would be a stable and controlled one, Can you give me some links to a video or something where someone with zero hip rotation loses height, as I am not saying your lying (why would you lie?) I just can't comprehend how what your saying works, we need ringers opinion me thinks

Not to pick on the poster Unscathed. But, his losing of the spine angle is due to his hips not rotating, basically before the downswing starts:

http://www.swingacademy.com/SwingAna...ol.aspx?id=482 Without his hips open at impact, his spine has almost no choice to but to "stand up." He' pretty upright to begin with at address, probably about 18 degrees of spine angle which he keeps at the top. But at the downswing he's bumping his hips forward instead of rotating which cause him to lose his spine angle which is now at about 5 degrees at impact. Here's some pics of an idea of what the hips should look like at impact and notice how their spine angle is a lot better: Fred Couples Sam Snead JJ Henry Ben Hogan There's more, just it's not easy to find pics at impact that give a clear description of what I'm talking about. I can't think of a tour pro that doesn't have open hips at impact and almost all of them have a spine angle of at least 20 degrees at impact as well (sans Stuart Appelby and Vijay Singh). 3JACK

[fusioncal]

Well, before you guys fire all the possibilities/answers/recommendations, IMO, it's better if the TS provide more infos on his swing first, eg. pictures or videos?

This is just like answering the question, "Why can't I hit the ball straight?"

[JaY_B]

Apologies, I thought you were saying that static hips caused a 'dip' on the downswing

[JaY_B]

This is just like answering the question, "Why can't I hit the ball straight?"

Because the Club head is not travelling perfectly down the target line, with a sqaure face in non windy conditions

[wachesawgolfer]

I don't like posts like this, there is no way you can give that advice without seeing his swing, there could be as many as a 100 reasons he is hitting the ball out of the toe, posts like this IMO are inaccurate and unhelpful.

I disagree entirely. If he wanted such imput he would go a teaching Pro with video. Obviously, he chooses to ask here and take the information for what its worth. Whether it is helpful or not is really his call, not yours.

FWIW when I hit my irons on the toe, more with the shorter irons, I am releasing early and coming over the top. If I slow my tempo down in the transition I keep the club more on plane. The trend is to shorten the backswing and I would warmup with shorter backswings and 80 percent effort to feel and obtain good club contact. To me if your setup is good (big question) dialing in the right tempo will cure a lot of golf ills.

[wachesawgolfer]

[
Without his hips open at impact, his spine has almost no choice to but to "stand up." He' pretty upright to begin with at address, probably about 18 degrees of spine angle which he keeps at the top. But at the downswing he's bumping his hips forward instead of rotating which cause him to lose his spine angle which is now at about 5 degrees at impact.

Here's some pics of an idea of what the hips should look like at impact and notice how their spine angle is a lot better:


I can't think of a tour pro that doesn't have open hips at impact and almost all of them have a spine angle of at least 20 degrees at impact as well (sans Stuart Appelby and Vijay Singh).





If you read Hogan's book he says the hips must turn to clear out of the way for the downswing. If the hips don't turn you end up with a reverse pivot and fall away from the target in an uprising position. Been there done that.