Golf Rule question: Deep-sixed ball ... into the green?

[twotacosfor99cents]

A friend just posed an interesting situation to me:

He was playing at the local muni and it had just rained, so the greens were a little soft. Too soft.

He hit a high 6 iron onto the green, and the ball literally got stuck an inch and a half into the surface of the green, where it wasn't visible looking at it from afar - he was almost sure that he had holed it.

He didn't know what the rule was, so he gave himself a free penalty, and removed the ball from the hole and put it a blade distance away, but there was a spirited discussion about what to do. I skimmed through the rule book and googled some, but didn't find anything. If the ball lands in mud on a fairway, it's played as is.

However, you can't obviously take a big fat divot off a green. :)

What say you, rule nazis?

[skierbri10]

As far as I know, as long as it is on the green, you can mark the ball and clean it. If you cannot repair the damage you can place it with in a club length no nearer the hole. Off to look at the rule book.........

[klaymon]

Actually, this came up in another thread a while back and it was determined that if a ball plugs in the fairway, you are entitled to a lift, clean, and drop. I would assume the same would apply here with the exception that since you're on the green, it would be a "place" instead of "drop".

[skierbri10]

16-1
b. Lifting and Cleaning Ball
A ball on the putting green may be lifted and, if desired, cleaned.
The position of the ball must be marked before it is lifted, and
the ball must be replaced (see Rule 20-1).
g c. Repair of Hole Plugs, Ball Marks and Other Damage
The player may repair an old hole plug or damage to the putting
green caused by the impact of a ball, whether or not the player’s
ball lies on the putting green. If a ball or ball-marker is accidentally
moved in the process of the repair, the ball or ball-marker
must be replaced. There is no penalty, provided the movement
of the ball or ball-marker is directly attributable to the specific
act of repairing an old hole plug or damage to the putting green
caused by the impact of a ball. Otherwise, Rule 18 applies.

[immts007]

I skimmed through the rule book and googled some, but didn't find anything. If the ball lands in mud on a fairway, it's played as is.

Hmmm. Not today at The Henrico County Open... they were playing "Lift, clean, and place"

[twotacosfor99cents]

Hmmm. Not today at The Henrico County Open... they were playing "Lift, clean, and place"

Tsk tsk. :) That's not allowed as far as I know. The rule above states on the putting green only, unless there's another rule that I don't know of.

[twotacosfor99cents]

I found this:

It seems to apply.

Rule 28 -- Ball Unplayable

If your ball is under a tree or in some other bad situation and you decide you cannot play it, add a penalty stroke and do one of the following:
1. Go back to where you played the last shot and play a ball from there

2. Measure two club-lengths from the unplayable lie, drop a ball and play from there

3. Keep the unplayable lie between where you drop the ball and the hole, go back as far as you wish on a straight line and drop and play the ball.

[Lefty731PM]

I found this:

For God's sake!

Are you serious? A ball plugged on the green is hardly in a "bad situation". Mark it. Dig it out. Clean it. Repair plug. Place it. Putt the friggin' thing. What a ridiculous post

[Rusty2228]

Tsk tsk. :) That's not allowed as far as I know. The rule above states on the putting green only, unless there's another rule that I don't know of.

Did you watch any of the BMW last year at Cog Hill? That tournament was lift, clean, and PLACE. There was all of the talk about how any course record would not be valid because of it.

I may be way off here, but I think I remember hearing that lift, clean, and place is a 'local' rule not a PGA.

[klaymon]

Rule 25-2:

A ball embedded in its own pitch-mark in the ground in any closely mown area through the green may be lifted, cleaned and dropped, without penalty, as near as possible to the spot where it lay but not nearer the hole. The ball when dropped must first strike a part of the course through the green. "Closely mown area" means any area of the course, including paths through the rough, cut to fairway height or less.

Rule 25-2/0.5:

For a ball to be considered embedded, it must be in its own pitch-mark with part of the ball below the level of the ground. However, the ball does not necessarily have to touch the soil to be considered embedded, e.g., grass or loose impediments may intervene between the ball and
the soil.

While this does not specify being ON the green, I cannot imagine it would not apply there too. I just can't find anything specific to being on the green.

[iacas]

Tsk tsk. :) That's not allowed as far as I know. The rule above states on the putting green only, unless there's another rule that I don't know of.

Source: USGA Site Linked to Below With the 2004 revision of the Rules of Golf, the Rules include a recommended Local Rule when adverse conditions warrant permitting the players to lift, clean, and place the ball. This Local Rule can be found in Appendix I; Part B; Section 3b. Please note that scores made when the Committee has adopted this Local Rule are acceptable for Handicapping purposes.

http://www.usga.org/playing/rules/co...ibilities.html

[Redwood_75]

This is certainly a local rule in the UK, also known as 'preffered lies', and normally comes into play around the winter months.

[SlammerSam]

mark the ball beside the ballmark, repair the ballmark, there is no penalty as long as the ballmarker is not placed nearer the cup. Klaymon had what I understand the be the best answer, my understanding of the rule may not be correct as I do not think that there is a specification for "on the green" although that is what I understood.

[twotacosfor99cents]

Did you watch any of the BMW last year at Cog Hill? That tournament was lift, clean, and PLACE. There was all of the talk about how any course record would not be valid because of it.

I actually did watch it, but I don't remember that practice. I need to pay closer attention. :)

[SubPar]

If the ball embeds in it's own pitch mark in any area that is supposed to be 'fair', you get free relief. If you hit it in the rough or in a hazard and it embeds, that is what is so rough or hazardous about it.

Rule 25-2

Embedded Ball Rule

Q. On what part of the course is a player entitled to relief from an embedded ball?

A. Under Rule 25-2, a player may only take relief from a ball that is embedded in a closely-mown area through the green. A closely-mown area is any area that is mowed to fairway height or less. However, the Committee may adopt a Local Rule that allows for relief from an embedded ball anywhere through the green.

25-2/0.5 When Ball Embedded in Ground

For a ball to be considered embedded, it must be in its own pitch-mark with part of the ball below the level of the ground. However, the ball does not necessarily have to touch the soil to be considered embedded, e.g., grass or loose impediments may intervene between the ball and
the soil.

[Undr Par]

I could be wrong and not to go off the topic from the OP but doesn't "Lift, Clean, and Place" only apply when the course has taken on alot of water from previous rain etc....? meaning the fairways have alot of water in spots.