Rules Clarification

[Doctorfro]

I'm sorry to bring this one up but I never seem to find a clear answer. I'm watching a high school golf match the other day and this player is hitting to a green across a small pond. His ball lands on the green and spins back into the pond. Normally I would say that you would drop on the golfer side of the pond BUT for whatever reason the pond had a red stake in front of it instead of yellow. This golfer then dropped on the green side of the pond and continue play. Which drop is correct?

[Andy_Mac]

Saw something similar happen to a tour pro earlier this year... since it was a lateral hazard and the ball last crossed the margin of the hazard on the green side he was allowed to drop on that side. It wasnt on the green, but it did hit the other side above the red line marking the hazard.

[klaymon]

Rule 26-1

Ball Rolling Back into Water Hazard

Q. My ball landed on the putting green side of a pond in front of the green, but rolled back into the pond. Where do I drop a ball to play my next stroke?

A. The answer depends on the type of hazard the ball rolled into. Under penalty of one stroke, if the ball entered into a water hazard, (yellow stakes and/or lines) or a lateral water hazard (red stakes and/or lines), the player may play a ball from as near as possible to where the original was last played (Rule 26-1a), or drop a ball behind the hazard keeping the point where the ball last crossed the margin of the hazard between himself and the hole (Rule 26-1b). Under this option, the player must drop the ball behind the water hazard (see Decision 26-1/1.5). An additional option available only for a ball in a lateral water hazard is to drop the ball within two club-lengths of the point where the ball last crossed the margin of the lateral water hazard or a point equidistant from the hole on the opposite margin of the hazard from where the ball last crossed into the hazard. However, it may not be dropped nearer the hole. If the player can drop the ball meeting the conditions of this last option, it may be dropped on the putting green side of the water hazard. Decision 26-1/15 illustrates the options under this Rule.

[Doctorfro]

Rule 26-1

Don't get me wrong. I truly appreciate it. I've seen that. But that's as clear as mud. To drop on the green side would be closer to the hole. So if that's not an option, why even mention it in the rule?

Is it me? Or is that just nuts? I guess I need pictures. What I really think is that this hazard was mismarked and should have been yellow. But it wasn't and you have to have a ruling.

[ericm]

Imagine a tape measure from the hole to the point of entry. Move that tape measure right and left. If there is any land, that is not in the hazard, that is more than the distance to the point of entry it is deemed to be further from the hole, therefore you can drop your ball there.

[Doctorfro]

Imagine a tape measure from the hole to the point of entry. Move that tape measure right and left. If there is any land, that is not in the hazard, that is more than the distance to the point of entry it is deemed to be further from the hole, therefore you can drop your ball there.

Ok, BUT, does it still have to be within two club lengths of where it rolled back into the hazard??

[Jeepthrills]

It would have to be within 2 club lengths, but that still gives you a lot of room for a drop. If you use simple geometry, just moving the ball 2 club lengths to the right. I am not a math expert, but the old A squared + B Squared = C Squared would apply. Let's say your ball rolls into the water 20 feet from the pin. That line is A. Drop the ball 2 club lengths to the right (pretend a driver is 48" for the sake of easy math) that's 8 feet and line B. Line C would be from the pin to the point of the drop. A squared would be 400 (20 x 20) and B squared would be 64 (8 x 8). Thus C squared would be 464 or roughly 21.5 x 21.5. In this case you are 1.5 feet further from the pin than if you had dropped where the ball went in. Granted, this only works if you go straight right or left of where your ball entered the hazzard.

[iacas]

Ok, BUT, does it still have to be within two club lengths of where it rolled back into the hazard??

I think that's answered by this:

Source: From Above Quoted Decision An additional option available only for a ball in a lateral water hazard is to drop the ball within two club-lengths of the point where the ball last crossed the margin of the lateral water hazard or a point equidistant from the hole on the opposite margin of the hazard from where the ball last crossed into the hazard. However, it may not be dropped nearer the hole. If the player can drop the ball meeting the conditions of this last option, it may be dropped on the putting green side of the water hazard.

So yeah, it still has to be within two club lengths. Most red hazards don't cut across in front of the hole like this one. Most lateral hazards are actually lateral - running mostly parallel to the direction of the hole.

[Doctorfro]

I think that's answered by this:

Understood. I have had some "officials" tell me that the last place it crosses the "margin" is on the player side of the hazard. Guess that's what confuses me as well: people's interpretations. And like I said earlier, it behooves me why this was marked with red stakes. To me it was clear that it should have been marked with yellow stakes or not at all.

[iacas]

Understood. I have had some "officials" tell me that the last place it crosses the "margin" is on the player side of the hazard. Guess that's what confuses me as well: people's interpretations. And like I said earlier, it behooves me why this was marked with red stakes. To me it was clear that it should have been marked with yellow stakes or not at all.

If not marked at all, though, you can ground your club, test conditions, and do other sorts of things. Also, you can't declare your ball unplayable in a water hazard, so a yellow hazard removes the "two clublengths" option from a standard water hazard.

So, the rules are different. If it's water, it should be marked as a water hazard. My club has thick woods and a large gorge to the left of almost every hole on the back nine. It used to be marked with white stakes, but since the penalty for a lost ball and a ball OB are the same, there's no need for the stakes and they've since been removed.