Gun Owners!

[Klew]

ok, back now...Calmly stated to the individual, or possibly individuals, "I have a gun." Person(s) did not flinch. ok, go downstairs, turn on the floodlights, saw it was a kid (maybe 19-23ish, bout 6', 150-160lbs), and stated to him:
"I'm not going to shoot you but I have called the police (even though I hadn't)"
He left, I followed him. When I opened the door, he ran, then I called the police. All this happened, and nobody awoke except myself.

Lax...fact is you are young and need to mature. Respect your knowledge of guns, but you need to educate yourself further. Just because you have a gun there is not a need for deadly force.

ok have fun guys.

[st0wgolf08]

I don't get the shotgun of self defense thing. Either you have a slug in there, so it's just as good as a normal rifle, or you have bird shot, and your just trying to wound the person. I understand there are tactical loads where there are like 10 decently sized bbs in there that actually can kill someone, but i doubt bird shot will stop a pretty big dude, unless you hit him square in the chest.

[alf174]

  st0wgolf08 said:

I don't get the shotgun of self defense thing. Either you have a slug in there, so it's just as good as a normal rifle, or you have bird shot, and your just trying to wound the person. I understand there are tactical loads where there are like 10 decently sized bbs in there that actually can kill someone, but i doubt bird shot will stop a pretty big dude, unless you hit him square in the chest.

In a stressful situation, its very unlikely the average person will be able to shoot straight. A shotgun however has a nice big spread if properly choked and will wound the intruder. Even a 12ga target load, 1-1/8 oz of 7-1/2, has 430+ bb count and will do some serious hurt in close quarters (less than 20 yards). In others, you won't miss and you will disable someone. An yes, my intent is only to wound to disable, not to take a life. Educate yourself on ammo choices and you'll see.

[shredfit]

  st0wgolf08 said:

I don't get the shotgun of self defense thing. Either you have a slug in there, so it's just as good as a normal rifle, or you have bird shot, and your just trying to wound the person. I understand there are tactical loads where there are like 10 decently sized bbs in there that actually can kill someone, but i doubt bird shot will stop a pretty big dude, unless you hit him square in the chest.

Your kidding right? At close range a shot gun with "bird shot" will put a 5 inch hole in someone. No special round necessary. I don't care how big you are... A 5 inch hole that you can stick you arm though, going through the body WILL stop them... This would happen, if you shot someone(with a shotgun) 10-15 feet away from you... so you got to be pretty close.

[pjsnyc]

Coming from someone who lives in NYC, I found this thread to be interesting. Contrary to many of my friends and relatives, I think gun ownership is fine as long as the gun owners are educated in everything it can do. The thing that scares me are people that THINK they know everything about firearms...then end up doing more harm than good (sorry lax, but they're right) even if the intentions are good.

I see gun ownership more as a deterrent than anything else. I mean the U.S. has a crapload of NUKES, but its not like we've used them every single time some country provokes us!

...CRAP - THE KING OF ENGLAND JUST KNOCKED ON MY DOOR!

[st0wgolf08]

  shredfit said:

Your kidding right? At close range a shot gun with "bird shot" will put a 5 inch hole in someone. No special round necessary. I don't care how big you are... A 5 inch hole that you can stick you arm though, going through the body WILL stop them...

Yes I agree that if the barrel is next to the person it will, but at a decent range, say from one room to another, I doubt it will put a hole in them as you say. I doubt it would penetrate their skin much more than a couple inches.

[iacas]

  st0wgolf08 said:

Yes I agree that if the barrel is next to the person it will, but at a decent range, say from one room to another, I doubt it will put a hole in them as you say. I doubt it would penetrate their skin much more than a couple inches.

You don't seem to know much about shotguns. And you do realize that most homes don't have even 20 yards of straight shooting. The spread from a shotgun at 20 yards is still only about a yard wide (or smaller), and that's without any sort of choke.

Emphasis added from this page :

Source: Wikipedia First, it [a shotgun] has enormous stopping power at short range, more than nearly all handguns and comparable to most rifle cartridges. The wide spread of shot produced by the gun makes it easier to aim and to be used by inexperienced marksmen. A typical self-defense load of buckshot contains 8-27 large lead pellets, resulting in many wound tracks in the target. Also, unlike a rifle bullet, each pellet of shot is less likely to penetrate walls and hit bystanders. It is favored by law enforcement for its low penetration and high stopping power. On the other hand, the hit potential of a defensive shotgun is often overstated. The typical defensive shot is typically taken at very close ranges, at which the shot charge expands no more than a few centimetres . This means the shotgun must still be aimed at the target with some care. Balancing this is the fact that shot spreads further upon entering the target, and the multiple wound channels of a defensive load are far more likely to produce a disabling wound than a rifle or handgun [2]

So... yeah. Basically the opposite of what you said. And even if shot went into someone's body "a couple of inches," imagine stabbing someone in the face, chest, stomach, etc. with a two- or three-inch knife. You'll do plenty of damage. Personally I don't care for shotguns (though I love shooting sporting clays) for home defense, but I'm an accurate enough shot and would rather have ten+ rounds. Plus there'd be a whole lot less of a mess to spackle with even a full clip of 9mm rounds.

[st0wgolf08]

  iacas said:

You don't seem to know much about shotguns.

The bolded was correct, I've been just going on what I've been told.

[shredfit]

  st0wgolf08 said:

Yes I agree that if the barrel is next to the person it will, but at a decent range, say from one room to another, I doubt it will put a hole in them as you say. I doubt it would penetrate their skin much more than a couple inches.

Iacas pretty much covered it... However, here is a little personal experience I've had with a shotgun.

When younger, my brother and I would go to a shooting range in South Dakota. It was just really and area away from everything on a hillside... They did have and old car door(from a 70's Buick...it was thick and heavy) there and I wanted to see what would happen if I shot it at close range. About 20 feet away put a 5 inch hole clean through the door including the interior side with a 3 inch 20 gauge shell with #4 bird shot.(probably about the same load as a regular length 12 gauge). Indeed very powerful... were talkin' cutting a man in half from that range... not just putting some bb's in the body.

[ganjagolfer]

  pjsnyc said:

...CRAP - THE KING OF ENGLAND JUST KNOCKED ON MY DOOR!

shoot him, its a robber, england has a queen

[st0wgolf08]

  ganjagolfer said:

shoot him, its a robber, england has a queen

I will give it to you, that was witty.

[Brett]

Just got my first which is a .270 rifle I will use for target shooting and occasional hunting. I'd like a 12 gauge (because rifle hunting is very restricted in Illinois, especially when you don't have your own land), a .22 rifle (dirt cheap ammunition for target shooting), and a revolver in .357 or .44 magnum (home defense/hunting sidearm). I'm going to stay out of the political stuff. Statistics are pretty much useless in these polarized arguments though, I make my living in data anlytics and can make numbers say what I want them to most of the time. IMO its silly to argue about it anyway. Its like a color blind guy and a normal sighted guy looking at the same stop light- same underlying reality, different perceptions/experiences. How nice to live in a country where if I care enough either way I could move somewhere where guns are essentially banned or somewhere where I could fire a cannon in my backyard.

[dak4n6]

Anyone here have any opinions or knowledge about the Saiga 308 and the Ruger Mini 30? I'm looking for all-purpose home defense, hunting, and recreational auto-loader rifles.

[nevets88]

One of these (Harold Varner PGA) does not look like the others.