Scoring question

[jermzkill]

I'm pretty new to golf (6 months) so of course I have games where I do fairly well and games where I do horribly. When you guys score do you ever stop on trying to finish a hole ever? Sometimes when I'm doing extremely horrible on a hole, maybe I lose my ball or mishit a couple times or etc I'll be +6 or something for just one hole. If this happens to you do you keep on trying to finish a hole no matter what? Or do you stop at a certain point. This is assuming there isn't a group behind you waiting for you to stop sucking so they can tee off.

[IcemanYVR]

For beginners, it is often recommended to pick up your ball after you see double par for the hole, especially if the course is busy.

You need to learn how to get the ball in the hole... that comes with practice and experience, but I don't think it serves any real purpose to beat yourself silly when you're just learning the game.

[Zeph]

Not often I pick up anymore, but if I hit like 2-3 shots OB or something like that I might pick it up. I don't like to, but sometimes a hole goes terribly worng. I add the max shots according to ESC to my scorecard and go on. We play alot on Stableford in Norway, in a tournament I pick up on double bogie or worse, unless I only got a putt to go. Also depends on the speed of the game. If we are in no rush I finish the hole.

[Jay-Bird]

If you're turning in scores for a handicap, you can still pick up on a hole (or skip a hole), just write down the score you most likely would've had, preceded by an 'x'.

like "X9".

[goblue107501]

It is okay to pick up, especially if you are just starting out. I wouldn't worry too much about a score or handicap or average. That will all come in time after you get better. My only piece of advice would be that if you have a hole that is going bad (couple of duffs, OB's, etc.) don't just pick up and move to the next hole. Just pick up and move to the green. Place your ball on the green and putt out the hole. That way you can still get the experience and practice getting the ball in the hole.

[TheLauncher]

If you are interested in maintaining an accurate handicap you should be using Equitable Stroke Control, explained here:

http://www.usga.org/playing/handicap...s/esctest.html

I agree with others that it is useful to finish the hole when practical, but I like ESC for giving me an acceptable 18 hole score even if I have to pick up on one or two.

[jermzkill]

Oh ok thanks, I didn't now about ESC, I'll be using that as a basis from my scoring from now on.

[Hidalgo]

Oh ok thanks, I didn't now about ESC, I'll be using that as a basis from my scoring from now on.

Record your scores accurately and use ESC.....it's the only FAIR way to do it.

Just a tip that might help....find a GOOD practice facility. When I was learning to control the ball, I was hitting 1500-1600 balls a week. (believe it or not) And while it sometimes got boring, the results were worth the effort. For some people, practice is a waste of time, and most think it's not nearly as much fun as playing the game. Personally, I love to practice because I can see the results of my efforts before I take the game to the course. The aspiring player should practice 5 times as much as they play on the course. So if your average score is 90-100, in reality you should be hitting 450-500 balls weekly (with a PURPOSE) in order to see your efforts pay off. After only a few weeks. you'll be able to finish out all of those holes.

[Zeph]

Yeah, with a purpose alright. Hitting 1500 balls wrong is a very good way to learn your body to do everything wrong. If you practice that much you gotta have a plan and always something you are working on. Just hitting balls can do more bad than good. Trying to fix 5 things at the same time is also a bad idea. I've done many changes to my swing the last year, but always did it one detail at a time. If you are consistent with this it doesn't take too long to get a new habit. In this process you should also back up with a couple of shots every day where you focus on the other details you've worked on to keep them in place.

[jermzkill]

Yeah, with a purpose alright. Hitting 1500 balls wrong is a very good way to learn your body to do everything wrong. If you practice that much you gotta have a plan and always something you are working on. Just hitting balls can do more bad than good. Trying to fix 5 things at the same time is also a bad idea. I've done many changes to my swing the last year, but always did it one detail at a time. If you are consistent with this it doesn't take too long to get a new habit. In this process you should also back up with a couple of shots every day where you focus on the other details you've worked on to keep them in place.

So do you recommend just working on one thing a day? So maybe driving one day, then pitching another. What are something I can mix together? My gf bought me a golf key with 34 tokens on it so I have a lot of practice I can get in.

[IcemanYVR]

So do you recommend just working on one thing a day? So maybe driving one day, then pitching another. What are something I can mix together? My gf bought me a golf key with 34 tokens on it so I have a lot of practice I can get in.

One swing key per range practice session. Feel free to visit the practice green every day... that's where a great deal of improvement comes.

By swing key, I mean practice drill, practice the drill 5 times, then one swing, feeling the drill. Repeat. That's how I practice on the range.

[Hidalgo]

So do you recommend just working on one thing a day? So maybe driving one day, then pitching another. What are something I can mix together? My gf bought me a golf key with 34 tokens on it so I have a lot of practice I can get in.

If you want to have better game, solid contact is a MUST. I would suggest that you work on making contact consistently before you go any further. And I have no problem working on a FEW (not every club in the bag) different clubs at the same time. Hit 25 balls with the 7, then 25 with the driver, then 25 with the 4, then start over. You'll know when you're making headway when you can go from one club to the other and make a seamless transition without mis-hitting the ball.

As for working on a swing change...it's almost impossible to do without assistance. I haven't seen ONE amateur that could tell you where his club was pointing in the backswing without looking...unless he had been told before. If you're going to make swing changes and work on mechanics, you need an instructor's supervision most of the time. Higgy.

[Zeph]

As for working on a swing change...it's almost impossible to do without assistance. I haven't seen ONE amateur that could tell you where his club was pointing in the backswing without looking...unless he had been told before. If you're going to make swing changes and work on mechanics, you need an instructor's supervision most of the time.

Nah, you don't need that. With a video camera you can do lots yourself. Not by filming every single swing, but to identify what you are doing wrong, correcting it and filming again. If you've got a decent camera it'll pick up much more than another person ever will. It also tech yourself quite a lot about the golf swing. That's what important, that you learn how it works and how you swing, not that somebody else see it and tell you. That way you can work one your own and really get better. I know because I've done it myself, still am doing it. Having someone watch you all the time is going to cost a lot of money or you need a good friend with lots of spare time.

Once you get some impressions of your swing you can develop feel for when you do it right and when you do it wrong.

[Hidalgo]

Nah, you don't need that. With a video camera you can do lots yourself.

And exactly WHAT are you going to see? Can you identify the things that need to be identified?

If you've got a decent camera it'll pick up much more than another person ever will.

True...but WHAT, exactly, are you going to "pick up" ?

That's what important, that you learn how it works and how you swing, not that somebody else see it and tell you. That way you can work one your own and really get better.

Not true at all. I've been teaching professionally for 20 years, and I've yet to see a person who could correct a mistake themselves unless they knew HOW to make the correction in the proper manner.

I know because I've done it myself, still am doing it. Having someone watch you all the time is going to cost a lot of money or you need a good friend with lots of spare time.

Well...with all due respect...your index shows just how much you know about the basics of the golf swing and how to make the club perform. Honestly, a 20 index shouldn't EVER be giving instruction.

Once you get some impressions of your swing you can develop feel for when you do it right and when you do it wrong.

AaaaHA! Now you finally said something that we agree on. But in order to get the "feel" for a PROPER swing...the player has to MAKE the proper swing. Just because the ball flight is good, and the accuracy is OK, that isn't evidence that the swing was done in a manner that can be taken to the course and repeated.

I wasn't suggesting that the player in question adopt a qualified (QUALIFIED is the key here) instructor and move into his extra bedroom. But unless you know HOW to teach and identify, and how to convey your message to the student, you have no chance of becoming a decent player. You need instruction once every 5 range sessions, on average.

[Zeph]

What makes you think nobody can make a change in their swing without having someone else watching it? I said I know the basics, never said I could put them into my swing like I should.

And by the way, there are many pros out there that teach people differently, sometimes just plain wrong.

You can for instance watch the swing and compare it to swings on Youtube. I don't suggest you copy a professional swing, but there are not that big differences out there. By having a pro you'll just copy what he tells you to anyways. With all due respect, you don't need to be a scratch player to f.i. identify the arms moving to early.

If you had a person watching you, how would you know that this person knows how it should look and what you should work on? How is that any different to filming it and reviewing it yourself?

I give as many instructions as I want, because not everyone has the money to hire a teacher or have someone else watch them all day long. It's the person that read or hear it that has to decide whether it's something to think about.

Golf is tricky, but the swing is usually the same, the same basics. You don't need a professional to tell you those things, why else would there be thousands of golf books? It's for those of us who cant get professional assistance all the time. I have had a couple of lessons, and both told me things I didn't know, but it was things I could clearly see myself on a video. The lessons was before the camera by the way.

You speak alot like you have the answer to everything, makes me not wanting to take you that serious with that attitude. And by the way, not everyone has a goal to be a scratch player, many are happy with a high handicap and maybe making minor adjustments once in a while.

In the end, what you feel related to the result is everything, if you tell me you can't change something and get a new feel without someone watching you then you don't have to reply here anymore, there is no use in discussing with you.

Edit: Ok, sorry for being a bit aggressive, but I don't like when someone talk like if they have the truth. To turn this into something positive I will take the challenge to get better. Something I would've done anyways, but some more motivation can't hurt. I was on the range today, first this season, little golf since september, so I was a bit rusty. As usual I struggled with a small slice. The shape is more like a fade, but it's a slice, I have no problem with that. So, I know what I'm doing wrong and experimented a bit. What worked really well was moving my right foot back a bit and started hitting it straight. Not something I want to make permanent, but it was to get some feeling in it. I'm coming over the top and tend to rush for the ball with my arms. I made a gate of tees where hitting from outside to inside would strike them all over the place. The result was a straight shot. So, I know what the problem is, I know how to fix it, but that'll take some time.

I'm no expert, I don't give professional advice, if anyone ask me, I'll tell them what I think, but it's not my fault if they pick it up and it was wrong. I have my own swing to work on, the only people I give advice to outside the internet is a couple of friends that just play golf because I do and don't care much about getting better.

What bothered me today, as it always does, is the stupid range mats. Doesn't exactly make it easier to practice.

[Hidalgo]

What makes you think nobody can make a change in their swing without having someone else watching it? I said I know the basics, never said I could put them into my swing like I should.

I can't speak for other professionals and their teaching habits and techniques. Did you have a bad experience with a PGA professional recently that can qualify those accusations?

With all due respect, you don't need to be a scratch player to f.i. identify the arms moving to early.

Agreed. How about grip pressure, stance, shoulder angle, footwork, ball position....geesh, there are literally dozens of things that can cause a problem. And if you try to correct the WRONG one, then you've gone backeards. Identifying the need is the key to providing the fix.

If you had a person watching you, how would you know that this person knows how it should look and what you should work on? How is that any different to filming it and reviewing it yourself?

Any person that you choose should be QUALIFIED to lend assistance. Due diligence is required in this instance just as it is when choosing a plumber, mechanic, etc.

I give as many instructions as I want, because not everyone has the money to hire a teacher or have someone else watch them all day long.

Blind leading the blind is not a path to perfection.

Golf is tricky, but the swing is usually the same, the same basics. You don't need a professional to tell you those things, why else would there be thousands of golf books? It's for those of us who cant get professional assistance all the time.

I'm glad you aren't working for an airline and learning to fly by "reading a book". After all....all airplanes fly basically the same way...right?

You speak alot like you have the answer to everything, makes me not wanting to take you that serious with that attitude. And by the way, not everyone has a goal to be a scratch player, many are happy with a high handicap and maybe making minor adjustments once in a while.

No...I don't have the answer to everything. But I do have the answers sometimes. It sounds to me like you have taken offense to my knowledge of the swing that I have worked hard and long to obtain. I am a student of the swing. Just like a scientist is a student of his trade. But I don't usually go around bashing scientists when they offer advice about the subject they are educated to know. Especially when I know nothing about them or their experience. It sounds like you simply didn't like being told that you were wrong. As for being satisfied with a high index, that's all fine and dandy. But golf, just like every other game, is usually more enjoyable the better it is played.

In the end, what you feel related to the result is everything, if you tell me you can't change something and get a new feel without someone watching you then you don't have to reply here anymore, there is no use in discussing with you.

I sincerely apologize to you...or anyone else...that I might have offended by offering correct and accurate advice. As for me replying here, I wasn't aware that you were the administrator on this forum. Please forgive my error.

Higgy.

[Zeph]

To reach a PGA professional I have to fly across the atlantic. I have two pros within reasonable driving range. I'll try the camera first and fly over if that doesn't work.

Offended? Nah, but you speak like there is only one option, anybody not using this option will be terrible at golf.

If you don't want a fellow high handicaper to watch your swing, how are you going to find someone qualified that doesn't charge $50 for half an hour?

Who said I was going for perfection? And who said those I help are going for perfection? There is no doubt that golf is more fun if you know how to swing the club, but not everyone can afford the time or money to get there. I'd say working on it yourself is much better than doing nothing at all, which is the option for me.

[Hidalgo]

Who said I was going for perfection? And who said those I help are going for perfection? There is no doubt that golf is more fun if you know how to swing the club, but not everyone can afford the time or money to get there. I'd say working on it yourself is much better than doing nothing at all, which is the option for me.

NOBODY that I saw said you were going for perfection. As a matter of fact...I wasn't talking to you at all. I was giving my opinion to the original poster. It was YOU that took up the issue with me. If working on your game yourself works for you, then I congratulate you. But that is not the most effective way to go about improving the game for most people. Just because YOU would rather do that than spend money for a competent teacher, that doesn't mean that it's the best thing for everyone else.

I'm sorry...but I just can't imagine why anyone would recommend that a player who wants to improve their game in a serious way forgo seeing a competent instructor if the opportunity presents itself. Zeph, you obviously have a distaste for my posts, or perhaps you are just one of those who lashes out at educated individuals because you feel threatened. Rest assured...I could care less what the case might be. But I would suggest that since you think I'm less intelligent than you about this game, that you simply ignore my posts in the future. I came here to try to lend free assistance to the members here. I have the experience and knowledge to do so. If you, or anyone else, decides to accept my opinions and knowledge they are welcome to do so. And they are also welcome to NOT do so. I have 20 years of experience teaching and studying the game of golf. I "think" that fact makes me more qualified than most to offer an opinion on questions that arise. If you think otherwise, then join the group that will not take my opinions seriously. But I did NOT come here to argue with you or anyone else. I'm not that type of personality. But I won't stand idly by and allow a struggling player to accept advice that I know is incorrect without offering an alternative option.