A quick question about handicap posting while playing in a match play event

[jewestcoast]

As a lower handicap I should know the answer to this but don't.....

Can an individual post a score to his (or her) handicap while playing in a match play event? My understanding is that if only shorter putts are conceded (and the likelihood of making them is over half of the time) and all other strokes are played this can be posted.

This is all I could find about it:

Most Likely Score

A "most likely score" is the score a player must post for handicap purposes if a hole is started but not completed or if the player is conceded a stroke. The most likely score consists of the number of strokes already taken plus, in the player's best judgment, the number of strokes the player would take to complete the hole from that position more than half the time. This number may not exceed the player's Equitable Stroke Control limit. (See Section 4-3.)

It is obvious to me that a different strategy would be employed while playing in a match play event but, all things being equal, can this score be posted?

Thanks in advance!

[neudi]

I believe the only time you should/are able to post a score from match play is when you finish every shot or take a score that is the maximum on the handicap sheet. That is if you are a 4 handicap you are only supposed to take a double bogey on a hole if you are going to put it in the system. This means that you should probably not enter a score from match play.

[iacas]

I believe the only time you should/are able to post a score from match play is when you finish every shot or take a score that is the maximum on the handicap sheet. ... This means that you should probably not enter a score from match play.

That doesn't make any sense. Heck, you're only required to play 13 holes in stroke play events to be able to post a score - you post your handicap (mostly pars for a 4) for holes you missed.

Source: Handicapping Rules 5-1c c. Scores in All Forms of Competition Scores in both match play and stroke play must be posted for handicap purposes. This includes scores made in match play, in multi-ball, or in team competitions in which players have not completed one or more holes or in which players are requested to pick up when out of contention on a hole. (See Decision 5-1c/1 and Section 4.)

There's the answer. Follow up with Decision 5-1c/1 and section 4 as necessary. You post the score you'd have likely made (or your ESC score, if the likely score is higher).

[Fourputt]

As a lower handicap I should know the answer to this but don't.....

The problem is that not only are concessions allowed in match play, but penalties are assessed differently... most 2 stroke penalties in stroke play are loss of hole in match play, so the stroke totals can get quite skewed. The USGA does not allow match and stroke play simultaneously because the two formats have such different application of the rules.

The pertinent decision is 33-1/6:

33-1/6 Players in Match Compete Concurrently in Stroke-Play Competition Q. In ignorance of the Rules, A and B played a match and concurrently competed in a stroke-play competition. What should the Committee do? A. Under Rule 33-1, the result of the match is null and void, and A and B are disqualified in the stroke-play competition. If the match was to be played on any day in a prescribed period, A and B must replay the match within the prescribed period. If it was too late for A and B to replay the match within the period, A and B are disqualified from the match-play competition, unless one concedes the match to the other. (Revised)

[iacas]

The USGA does not allow match and stroke play simultaneously because the two formats have such different application of the rules.

He didn't ask about playing in a stroke-play competition concurrently with a match-play competition.

He asked about using a match-play competition round for handicap purposes. That's quite different and is covered by the information I posted earlier (along with the referenced decision and section):

Source: Handicapping Rules 5-1c c. Scores in All Forms of Competition Scores in both match play and stroke play must be posted for handicap purposes. This includes scores made in match play, in multi-ball, or in team competitions in which players have not completed one or more holes or in which players are requested to pick up when out of contention on a hole. (See Decision 5-1c/1 and Section 4.)

[Fourputt]

He didn't ask about playing in a stroke-play competition concurrently with a match-play competition.

But at the same time, if you fail to play a majority of the holes under the rules for stroke play (i.e. you don't hole out or don't take the stroke play penalty or any such combination that exceeds 50%) then it would also seem to me that this section would apply:

f. Unacceptable Scores Scores made under the following conditions are not acceptable for handicap purposes and must not be entered in the player's scoring record: (i) When fewer than seven holes are played; (ii) When made on a golf course in an area in which an inactive season established by the authorized golf association is in effect; (iii) When a majority of the holes are not played in accordance with the principles of the Rules of Golf (except for preferred lies);

[iacas]

But at the same time, if you fail to play a majority of the holes under the rules for stroke play (i.e. you don't hole out or don't take the stroke play penalty or any such combination that exceeds 50%) then it would also seem to me that this section would apply:

That section doesn't apply, no. "In accordance with the Rules of Golf" means not kicking your ball, not agreeing to waive rules, etc. You can play a match "in accordance with the rules," write down the score you'd have likely made, and not hole out a lot of the time. A scramble, for example, isn't permissable.

In other words, you're still playing under the rules of golf - it doesn't matter that they're the rules for match play. If your match is so badly matched that you aren't close enough to the hole to make good guesses about what you'd have scored, then I can see where you wouldn't post that... but again, that situation should be rare. Matches shouldn't be that badly mismatched that you never get to the green.

[jewestcoast]

Thanks for the responses so far but let me clarify my specific situation:
In our Men's Club we play a match play event called our "President's Cup" where we qualify and play other golfers in a match play format. Even though the strategy is a little different in match play (being more agressive, i.e. trying to hole a chip when the other player has a short birdie putt or something like that) I was wondering if it would be appropriate to post the scores to my handicap after these matches. It is going to be a large part of my golf throughout the month of April and May. Assuming I made the final it would be 6 matches and I would like to post them unless there is something that says I can't or shouldn't.

Again, this assumes that the rules of golf will be followed (they will) and the only putts that are generally conceded are ones that I would make more than half of the time.

Thanks.
Discuss.

[JonnyGolf]

Thanks for the responses so far but let me clarify my specific situation:

I don't understand what's the issue. All rounds, played under the rules of golf, are to be posted for handicap purposes.

If you're conceded a hole, you post what you what you would most likely make on that hole. If you're conceded a 3 footer that you would make 50% of the time, decide if you would have made it and record that score. If you finish prior to the 18th, you post par + index. So, it is not "should" you post match play scores, it is "yes, yes, yes, you MUST post these scores."

[iacas]

So, it is not "should" you post match play scores, it is "yes, yes, yes, you MUST post these scores."

What he said.

We've answered your question.

[Alex B]

Quick corollary question:

If an eighteen-hole match ends, let's say, 8&7, so the competitors only play 11 holes instead of the 13 required to post a score (assuming they walk in after the match has been closed out), do they post nine-hole scores?

Similarly, if a nine-hole match ends 5&3, do the competitors, having played fewer holes (six) than the seven needed to input a nine-hole score, post no scores at all?

[RemyM]

Quick corollary question:

If you play fewer then 7 holes you don't post a score.

If you play 7-12 holes you post a 9 hole score. If you play 13-18 holes you post an 18 hole score. http://www.usga.org/questions/faqs/handicap.asp

[TMO]

I never posted anything from Match Play to my handicap. Two reasons: (1) I would end up having putts conceded which means I legally am not playing hole to completion and (2) match play is such a different animal; I might have a par putt given to me because my opponent is already in with Birdie. If you think about, if you were playing Tiger in match play as a 60 handicapper he would tell you to pick up every hole at a certain point. That's just me though - not the 60 handicapper.

[Fourputt]

I never posted anything from Match Play to my handicap. Two reasons: (1) I would end up having putts conceded which means I legally am not playing hole to completion and (2) match play is such a different animal; I might have a par putt given to me because my opponent is already in with Birdie. If you think about, if you were playing Tiger in match play as a 60 handicapper he would tell you to pick up every hole at a certain point. That's just me though - not the 60 handicapper.

I think I'm too much of a purist to post a match play score too. When I play a typical round I hole every putt and call every penalty, follow proper procedures for provisional balls and stroke and distance penalties, so for me posting match scores for handicap just doesn't fit that mindset. My match strategies are so often different than they would be in a similar stroke play situation too, that the scores just don't relate.

I play enough golf (over 100 rounds a year), both tournament and casual stroke play, that the few match rounds that I don't post aren't that much of a factor anyway.

[iacas]

I think I'm too much of a purist to post a match play score too. When I play a typical round I hole every putt and call every penalty, follow proper procedures for provisional balls and stroke and distance penalties, so for me posting match scores for handicap just doesn't fit that mindset. My match strategies are so often different than they would be in a similar stroke play situation too, that the scores just don't relate.

Even given all I said above, I agree with what's said here, too. But I play so little match play that I can't remember the last time I would have had to post a round... I'm going to play more match play this year, though (some city tournaments, as well as some club championships), so maybe I'll do what's right and post 'em.

[RemyM]

I never posted anything from Match Play to my handicap.

I think I'm too much of a purist to post a match play score too.

We'll if either of you played in my Men's Club you would have no choice. Everyone is notified that all club championship matches must be posted, and how to handle concessions and holes not played per the USGA handicap manual. If you fail to post your match play score then a penalty score will be posted to your scoring record.

[Fourputt]

We'll if either of you played in my Men's Club you would have no choice. Everyone is notified that all club championship matches must be posted, and how to handle concessions and holes not played per the USGA handicap manual. If you fail to post your match play score then a penalty score will be posted to your scoring record.

We have several match play brackets that run all season in my Men's club too (not the club championship though, that's stroke play). Men's club match play cards have to be signed and returned to the committee at my club for review and posting of results, so the committee does the posting for handicap.... they are the ones who have to figure out how to address the holes where no score is marked. They will do the best they can to follow USGA guidelines. I've seem match play cards turned in with nothing marked but the "X" for who won the hole, then a running +/- total for the state of the match. I don't know how they would post those scores.

For a casual match with a friend I just don't bother with it.