Ruling Body Authority Upheld

[iacas]

An interesting blog post from Stachura and Johnson:

http://www.golfdigest.com/equipment/...er-upheld.html

Source: Linked Article
This sounds so much like the groove rule it could be a test case. In no uncertain terms, it appears there is now, at least, and may always have been, sufficient legal precedent for the USGA to make any rule it finds necessary. That final statement from Judge Battani sounds to me like a killer for any manufacturer wanting to rail against the USGA over rule changes. One wonders if it might be that extra bit of confidence a ruling body might want in putting forth any future equipment performance rollbacks. (Golf ball and driver head size, anyone?)

I think balls are fine, but a 400cc limit on driver heads would be okay by me.

[TinCupTampa]

I think balls are fine, but a 400cc limit on driver heads would be okay by me.

I would be fine with that as well.

[goblue107501]

I think balls are fine, but a 400cc limit on driver heads would be okay by me.

Agreed. I would be happy if they just

made drivers at 400cc or less. It doesn't even have to be a rule, just make something smaller. Titleist has started something that hopefully will become a trend. Interesting article. I don't think the groove thing will affect too many people. By the time the rule would be in full effect, I will have bought a new set of irons and about two different sets of wedges that will be made conforming to the new rule. It's not like we have to go out and purchase new stuff for this year or we will get banned from golf.

[chriskzoo]

Since they have capped drivers at 460cc, I highly doubt you will ever see a reduction in that number. The ball is a far bigger difference between now and 30 years ago.

[Big_M]

I think balls are fine, but a 400cc limit on driver heads would be okay by me.

It wouldn't bother me, but it should be grandfathered in like the groove rules. Also, it would have the most effect on amatuers, as they benefit the most from the large clubheads. Heck, Tiger, AK, and a few others are already playing a 380cc version of the Dymo. I just think it would be unnecessary and not really "do" anything. I like the way it is now at 460cc and having MOI and COR restrictions.

[iacas]

Since they have capped drivers at 460cc, I highly doubt you will ever see a reduction in that number. The ball is a far bigger difference between now and 30 years ago.

Let's not get into that here. That's really not the point of this thread...

In fact, let me clarify the point of this thread: I see it more as a matter of what I mention in the subject: Ruling Body Authority Upheld. I'm one of the people don't think Ping would have necessarily won their grooves lawsuit awhile back (but I also think the USGA could have handled it better), and this court decision kind of backs that thought up. In general, I'm glad to see that the courts agree that a ruling body can change rules and that they aren't doing so for commercial gain - it should let the USGA change some rules they were suckered into. So the thread's more about "ruling body authority" than any particular piece of equipment, and it certainly isn't about "placing blame" on anybody or any piece of equipment for any real or perceived "ruining" of anything. Just to head that off...

Agreed. I would be happy if they just

Can't say they started it, really. They held out with the 905S for awhile, but TaylorMade has had the r7 425 and the new R9 is only 418-422 cc, so there are people making "smaller" drivers out there. Just not

It's not like we have to go out and purchase new stuff for this year or we will get banned from golf.

Right. I'm looking forward to the PGA Tour next year, to see how this affects THEM. I already know how it affects me (and I will subject myself to the rules, either by keeping the wedges I have now or buying new conforming ones, because I play in some regional tournaments and things and figure I may as well adapt now rather than later).

It wouldn't bother me, but it should be grandfathered in like the groove rules.

To be clear, that was Johnson and Stachura talking, of course, not the USGA at all. So far as we know, the USGA is perpetually studying golf ball performance (and has been for five to nine now) and is currently studying high loft - not much else. That may change, but that's what we know right now.

Also, it would have the most effect on amatuers, as they benefit the most from the large clubheads.

Maybe. That's debatable, as a bigger clubhead certainly lets a pro let loose a bit more, too. Amateurs hit it all over the face more than pros, naturally, but amateurs also still manage to hit wormburners with modern drivers.

If you took a pro's 1/4" miss that currently takes five yards off their tee shot and suddenly made it lose 20 yards because of the smaller clubhead, well, they'd be swinging a tad easier. And if the grooves test goes over well, but doesn't quite get back to the golf the USGA would like to see - and I'm speculating here - we may very well see such a change with drivers.

Heck, Tiger, AK, and a few others are already playing a 380cc version of the Dymo.

Source? I believe you, I just haven't ever seen the information published so we can refer to it when others don't believe it.

And again, in the end, I'm glad the courts seem to agree with me: that the ruling body should be free to make the rules.

[Big_M]

I'm one of the people don't think Ping would have necessarily won their grooves lawsuit awhile back (but I also think the USGA could have handled it better), and this court decision kind of backs that thought up.

yeah... as an aspiring attorney the golf lawsuits (and other sports) are of interest to me, and in this case I agree with the courts w/o really looking at the case details yet.

To be clear, that was Johnson and Stachura talking, of course, not the USGA at all. So far as we know, the USGA is perpetually studying golf ball performance (and has been for five to nine now) and is currently studying high loft - not much else. That may change, but that's what we know right now.

Yes, I know it was mere speculation and possibilites. I was only saying that if they did adopt some change, it should be handled in the same manner as the grooves... which I thought was well done.

I don't think I lost 20 yards on 1/4" misshits with my old 360cc driver... but I understand what you're saying... smaller heads = more penalty on misses and perhaps more controlled swings depending on circumstances.

[TinCupTampa]

Source? I believe you, I just haven't ever seen the information published so we can refer to it when others don't believe it.

Here is the link for AK's 380 Dymo:

http://blogs.golf.com/equipment/2009...y-kim-mak.html

[Fourputt]

I still have my 22 year old TM Tour Driver... smaller than today's 3W's and it's still quite playable... so I don't really care how far back they might roll the size limits.

I love it that the ruling bodies (of all sports) may just have been given back the control they need to protect the games that they oversee. I always felt that the Ping lawsuit was a bad joke on the American judicial system.

[Big_M]

Source? I believe you, I just haven't ever seen the information published so we can refer to it when others don't believe it.

actually it was me that stated this... not goblue... quotes must have gotten mixed up.

My source is golfwrx... it is all over the boards that a few guys have spoken to tour reps who have verrified that some of the Nike players are using 380cc prototypes. If you look at bag pics from events you can see that the head is smaller (not a compact 460 smaller either). Anyway, as someone posted there is also a short article from Golf Magazine.