Switching From A Soft 2 Piece To A Premium Ball-Distance Loss?

[cocky_watchman]

Hi,

I currently use a Srixon AD333. I consider it a good soft 2 piece ball. I hit it quite far off the tee-for my handicap anyway. Where I throw away my shots is 100 yards in it. Very inconsistent pitching, wedges etc. Whilst this is down to technique and not the ball, Im considering in summer going to a premium ball. Possibly Bridgestine B330 or Z Star (or the Z URC/S which will be heavily reduced).

The question is (AND I KNOW ITS ONLY A GUESSTIMATE!! since everyones launch, swing, spin etc is different). If I swing at 95-97mph...how much distance on a drive would I expect to lose???? A few yards, 5 yards, 10 yards or none at all? How significant will it be. I mean will I use a 7 iron where I would use a 9 iron. Or is it going to be so little I wont notice.

Currently I use mostly 8-wedge for my second shot and with the 10-20 yards roll I will get that I don't get in winter distance should not be a problem on the courses I play-and if my control improves it will be worth it.

The other consideration is how significant will extra SIDE spin be on poor shots, hooks and slices. Will it be insignificant, or will I find it really hard to keep a premium ball straight. I find the Srixon AD333 goes very straight, is quite soft and is fairly long. For me its a good compromise ball-a good allrounder, with a slight bias towards distance. Im thinking a soft premium ball is the way forward now.

Thanks guys

[TomDonS]

You know what. You will find no Distance loss on the most part. But the things you gain. Feel, touch, spin. putting roll and feel. Is all the difference in the world. Plus the distance you will lose with the new technology is SO Marginal if ANY. You might gain distance because the Compression is better suited to you. Good Luck here are some suggestions.

Long / soft premiums:
Srixon Z Star X
Bridgestone B330 S
Nike One Black
Pro V1 and X cant go wrong with a "Pro V"
Callaway Tour i (x)

[iacas]

If I swing at 95-97mph...how much distance on a drive would I expect to lose????

You might gain yardage. Firmer balls launch with higher ball speed.

Also, Srixon compares that ball to the NXT Tour, so I'm not sure it's as soft as you seem to think it is. So your yardages might not change much at all. I suspect you won't be losing any yardage. The AD333 isn't a rock-hard pure "distance" ball, after all. But if you switch to the Z-Star instead of the Z-Star X, you might give up a little, because that IS the softer ball of the pair. +/- 5-10 yards, tops. Depends on your launch conditions and the actual characteristics of the AD333 vs. the ball you end up with (I'm only familiar with the Z-Stars).

[cocky_watchman]

So to summarise what your saying is it is probably best for me to go to the premium type ball since the benefits far outweigh any loss of distance-which may be insignificant and possibly nothing-and i may even gain a little distance.

I always had it in my head-from the balata days when I was a teenager learning to play, that 'good/premium' ball were just for 7 handicap and below, or really long hitters. I thought I would not be good enough to use a Pro V1 type. From what Im hearing this isn't really the case now and it seems most average players can benefit from a more controlable ball. I guess it's a case of using it and seeing if it accentuates my tendancy to over cut the odd drive-which is only 1 in 10 I'd say. The other thing with those balata was if you thinned a wedge the ball was basically left with a cut in it! The spinny balls now are much more resilliant so it isn't so much of a factor.

As for the Srixon AD333-I consider it to be surprisingly soft for what is essentialy a 2 piece distance ball. I like the NXT tour so use it as the cheaper alternative. Titleist balls are impressive, it's just price is a consideration, so I like what Srixon do. I was quite impressed by the feel and stop I get from the Srixon AD333. It generally stops and spins back a little on the greens and has a nice feel off the putter. Its fine for winter and wet/boggy greens we get here in UK. In fact I will use the longest ball I can that doesn't have a horrible 'rock' feel-since in winter here a.everything plugs and stops on landing, both fairways and greens b.you lose more balls through leaves, plugging, mud etc. But it's spring now and summer approaching- I think in the summer when the greens get harder and faster that a premuim/soft/spin ball will be the way forward for me.

[cocky_watchman]

One think I have to ask, because I'm confused and there seems to be a lot of conflicting information out there...

Each of the premuim balls has a harder and softer version
eg Prov1-softer ProV1x-harder
Srixon Z-star -softer Srixon Z-star X harder
Bridgestone B330-harder and the B330S-softer.....do I have that right???!!

Anyway, as a 95-97mph swinger I would probably be on the slower swing speed map as far as what is recommended for these balls. So surely I would be better to use the harder ball, which will offer a little more distance and less spin-right?????

So why does Srixon recommend the Z-Star-the softer ball for slower swing speeds.

I've got this wrong here somewhere. Help me out please Erik (seemingly resident ball expert!). what premium balls am I best trying from Srixon, Titleist, taylorMade and Bridgestone (I won't play Nike!!).

Thanks, and sorry if I'm a little dumb here, but I do find it confusing. I know the difference is probably not that huge for me, but I would like to start off on the right track!

[Chilli Dipper]

If your swing speed is only in the 95-97 range and you're looking for a tour-like ball, you need to check out the Bridgestone B330-RX or the new Nike One Tour D. Those balls were actually designed for players with your swing speed.

[TomDonS]

One think I have to ask, because I'm confused and there seems to be a lot of conflicting information out there...

You have the grasp on it. You will get the same amount of distance from the softer premium as a HARD hitter will get from the harder. And vice versa. You will lose on the harder. Its all about compression. Some people cant compress the ball properly so you lose distance and control because you are no correctly using the ball as it is designed. Hope this helps.

[TinCupTampa]

One think I have to ask, because I'm confused and there seems to be a lot of conflicting information out there...

A 95-97 mph ss isnt fast enough to compress a Pro V1, Bridgestone B330, or B330-S.

[TomDonS]

A 95-97 mph ss isnt fast enough to compress a Pro V1, Bridgestone B330, or B330-S.

SURE IT IS!!! I have guys that get pro v1 balls that dont swing much over 90 at all. It compresses. The prov1 x and b330 NO. but the normal Pro V1 and B330 S. You can compress no problem.

That is a very good swing speed. MOST people over measure their SS. If someone tells you he swings 110 he probubly swings 102. Think of it like lying about other measurements. ha ha

[TinCupTampa]

SURE IT IS!!! I have guys that get pro v1 balls that dont swing much over 90 at all. It compresses. The prov1 x and b330 NO. but the normal Pro V1 and B330 S. You can compress no problem.

FYI: From the Bridgestone website RE: B330-S

Optimized for TOUR AVERAGE 103 - 115 MPH Swing Speeds

[TinCupTampa]

Regarding the PRO V1... how about a reveiw from this website:

http://thesandtrap.com/bag_drop/titl...v1x_golf_balls

"Let's get one thing clear right off the bat: it's my opinion the Pro V1 line is really not for the average Joe. Unless you have a driver swing speed around 100 mph or better, you're probably not going to get everything out of these balls that they're capable of delivering.

Even still, Titleist communications director Joe Gomes is quick to point out that "most of a golfer's scoring is into and around the greens, so even if a golfer isn't getting the absolute most out of a Pro V1 off the tee, they may save strokes around the greens."

That's mirrors my own experience. With my 90 MPH swing, they work just fine off the tee and they're absolute magic around and on the green. It's just that I can't compress them enough to realize their potential maximum distance… or mine."

[Chilli Dipper]

SURE IT IS!!! I have guys that get pro v1 balls that dont swing much over 90 at all. It compresses. The prov1 x and b330 NO. but the normal Pro V1 and B330 S. You can compress no problem.

Using that logic, the original poster's swing speed is really only in the 80s, and that's definitely too slow for a Pro-V1.

[cocky_watchman]

When you say it isn't enough to compress it, really what you mean is fully compress it. i.e. it's not the OPTIMUM swing speed, although it can be used. This is what my dilema was all about. I don't think I swing quite fast enough, but with the balls as they are now i probably am fast enough to make it worth while swapping.

I think I was getting confused between soft and soft core, or compression! i worked it out now. Basically the softer ball, with the lower compression, will be nearer my optimum and will be more compressable for my swing speed-so I will get the max distance from. In which case I will try Srixon Z-Star and Bridgestone-RX.

Most of the guys I play with are from the 'I must play a Titleist Pro V1' school of thought. Not only do i score better than them all, but I also hit it considerably further than all of them. When they occasionally use a different ball, say when they play a provisonal or whatever, I don't suddenly see them hit it 30 yards further or past me. I think the distance difference is gonna be so small that it doesn't matter if I can't compress the ball fully-the better feel, spin and control is the key

[TinCupTampa]

When you say it isn't enough to compress it, really what you mean is fully compress it. i.e. it's not the OPTIMUM swing speed, although it can be used. This is what my dilema was all about. I don't think I swing quite fast enough, but with the balls as they are now i probably am fast enough to make it worth while swapping.

I think you understand the difference and what will work best. The 330rx is a good premium ball and you cant go wrong with it... Premium Callaway balls are also good for lower swing speeds as well. There are others... I just dont know which ones.

[cocky_watchman]

Ha ha. I went the golf show in Birmingham UK and had my swing speed and launch conditions for drivers measured. I would have guessed I was 85mph. But he measured me and said I was 97mph-I was surprised. I say 95-97mph since I might have swung a bit harder that day, who knows. But generally THAT IS my speed, no BS!!! I generally hit my driver 240-250yards ish carry i'd guess-of late anyway, and the ball lands in the pitch mark so you can tell. And from 150 yards I hit a smooth 7 iron. Im not really into all this macho bs long distance stuff, I nowhere near ever hit it 300 yards, unless the fairway is bone dry in summer. What I crave is the ability to be deadly from 80-100 yards in. That's where the low handicappers impress me and where I don't impress others!

[iacas]

The misconceptions being spread in this thread are making my head hurt.

Each of the premuim balls has a harder and softer version

Yes, and you listed them correctly. The softer ball is there for people who want a bit more spin or a bit softer feel. Most often that comes into play around the greens, but you'll usually lose a little distance off the tee with the softer version.

Anyway, as a 95-97mph swinger I would probably be on the slower swing speed map as far as what is recommended for these balls.

There's really no boundary.

So surely I would be better to use the harder ball, which will offer a little more distance and less spin-right?????

A firmer ball will always produce more ball speed off of every club than a softer ball (we're talking about real golf balls here, not mythical "pool-ball no-compression" balls).

The only possible way a softer ball will fly further is if the launch angle and spin of the firmer ball are so far out of whack that the added spin of the softer ball helps to carry the ball further. Those situations are rare

So why does Srixon recommend the Z-Star-the softer ball for slower swing speeds.

Probably because the firmer ball will feel too firm.

Tiger has one of the fastest swing speeds on Tour but plays one of the softer, spinnier golf balls. "Softness" has little to do with swing speed. I've linked to it a lot lately, but listen to the relevant sections of this podcast regarding "optimized" and "minimum swing speed": http://thesandtrap.com/podcasts/golf_talk_episode_106 I can't tell you which ball to play. You may only lose 2 yards off the driver with the softer variant of any ball. If you listen to the podcast, they'll give you an idea how they fit players to golf balls. Executive summary: from the green backwards.

You have the grasp on it. You will get the same amount of distance from the softer premium as a HARD hitter will get from the harder. And vice versa. You will lose on the harder.

That would be wrong, if I am to believe what Titleist and TaylorMade ball guys (and others) have told me through the years. And I do.

A 95-97 mph ss isnt fast enough to compress a Pro V1, Bridgestone B330, or B330-S.

FYI: From the Bridgestone website RE: B330-S

I've linked to it a lot lately, but listen to the relevant sections of this podcast regarding "optimized" and "minimum swing speed":

http://thesandtrap.com/podcasts/golf_talk_episode_106

Regarding the PRO V1... how about a reveiw from this website

That's not a review, and it no longer contains that bad information.

When you say it isn't enough to compress it, really what you mean is fully compress it. i.e. it's not the OPTIMUM swing speed, although it can be used.

I've linked to it a lot lately, but listen to the relevant sections of this podcast regarding "optimized" and "minimum swing speed":

http://thesandtrap.com/podcasts/golf_talk_episode_106

[cocky_watchman]

Well I listened to the podcast and I think there is a contradiction between what different companies are saying.

According to the podcast ProV1 is a harder ball, less spin and more distance for almost all players. The thought that the ball is too hard to compress by a slower swinger is kind of not valid-a harder ball goes off the face faster, end of story.

Now Srixon and Bridgestone seem to say the opposite. They market their softer ball-the Z-Star instead of Z-Star X, and the Bridgestone B330-S (and RX) instead of B330 as the one for the slower swing speed-I guess they must mean more distance for the slower swing speed. Seeing as a slower swing speed would want more distance, they are hardly going to suggest using the ball that will go shorter are they. Indeed the RX is marketed specificaly as a ball that can be used by slower swing speeds.

Seems that Titleist are saying the opposite of Srixon/Bridgestone!

Oh well, I'll just have to hit a Z-Star and a Z-Star X and a B330/S/RX and see what works best.

The problem I have is that the golf shops only seem to sell 12 boxes. Gets pricey to try these balls, which lets face it, are priced pretty damn high!!!! It's tempting to just stick with my Srixon AD333!!! Ha ha.

Any idea who sells 3 packs of ball online in UK at a good price (with free delivery!!)

[iacas]

Well I listened to the podcast and I think there is a contradiction between what different companies are saying.

No, I think you have to realize that what you heard in the podcast was an engineer talking, and what you typically hear is the PR department (of any company) talking. They want to try to make things simple for people so they buy their stuff. I think they've done the opposite, and this thread speaks to that...

They

Emphasis added. Marketing department, not the engineers.

I guess they must mean more distance for the slower swing speed.

A softer ball will not go further unless you can't generate enough spin to get lift with the firmer ball.

Indeed the RX is marketed specificaly as a ball that can be used by slower swing speeds.

Here's what I think about this whole "softer ball for slower swingers" thing and why it has come about

: 1) A player with a high swing speed playing a softer ball can generate too much spin and will get ballooning balls and/or bigger hooks and slices. 2) A player with a slower swing speed playing a firmer ball can generate too little spin and will get a ball that kind of falls out of the sky prematurely. In the first case, the player should use a firmer ball because it will likely spin a lot less, bringing their spin rates into reasonable range and preventing them from losing distance from the softer ball due to ballooning. In the second case, the player should use a softer ball because it will likely spin a lot more, bringing their spin rates into a reasonable range and preventing them from losing distance from the firmer ball due to lift deficiency. In other words, marketing-speak. Ball speed will always be higher for the firmer ball. Total distance will vary based largely on your swing speed, but more importantly based on your swing speed AND your backspin rate AND your launch angle - your "launch conditions." Since ball speed will always be higher for the firmer ball, if you can get yourself into a range of optimum launch conditions (spin, launch angle - see below) with both a firmer and a softer ball, the harder ball will travel further. Optimal launch conditions in line with these figures:

Oh well, I'll just have to hit a Z-Star and a Z-Star X and a B330/S/RX and see what works best.

A few yards off the tee should not be the deciding factor unless your scoring zone shotmaking and preferences around the greens are identical.