1 Iron Golf Clubs

[vangator]

Not a comp round. My handicap is from my league which I haven't played in all year. My guess is I'm playing about a 2 right now. Haven't shot in the 80's all year (and this is August!). I have never stuck so many wedges so close in any one round. Hole 1: 6 foot birdie putt (made) Hole 2: 10 foot birdie (missed) Hole 3: 20 foot birdie putt (made) Hole 4: 5 foot birdie putt (made) Hole 5: Bogey. Had to punch out sideways from a fairway bunker. Almost made a 20 foot par saver. Hole 6: 3 foot birdie putt (made) Hole 7: Chipped from just off green to about 6 inches for par. Hole 8: 5 foot birdie putt (missed) Hole 9: 25 foot birdie putt (missed) Hole 10: Chipped just off green to about 2 feet. Made par putt. Hole 11: Almost a hole in one. Missed 3 foot downhill birdie putt. Hole 12. Bogey. Just off green in two and had a chip check up on me. Hole 13. Eagle. Holed a LW from 50 yards. Hole 14: 10 foot birdie putt (missed) Hole 15: 40 foot birdie. 2 putted for par. Hole 16: bogey. Hit behind the lone tree on the hole. Had to punch sideways. Par putt came up 6 inches short. Hole 17: 20 foot birdie putt (missed) Hole 18: Chipped from just off green to 2 feet. Made putt for par. So I made a 20 foot putt. Made a few short putts and missed a 3 footer, 5 footer and two 10 footers. The greens were punched a couple of weeks ago, so they were bumpy. I was thinking of keeping that left shoulder in and taking one extra club and making a smooth swing instead of hard swings. Really worked well. Only iron I "mishit" all day still made the green.

[rdubya59]

Bryson DeChambeau just won the NCAA division 1 individual and the USA amateur.  He uses irons which are all his 7 iron length.  He also uses a Moe Norman like golf swing.  I'm thinking he'll probably "stick with it".

[Johnny1790]

Yes...as most who have made the transition will...there are many on here who have.

I have not gone the Moe Norman route (yet), but for an average club golfer it has been a worthwhile change.

I still play crap occasionally, as I have in my last 3 outings, but the trend has been better and better.

I suspect 1-iron golf may be getting a few more orders soon...and rightly so.

[dmcnab]

Hi all....I am using the 1-Iron set and so far, I really like them (especially the driver and the woods -- I can finally hit these clubs!)...and, I am experimenting with the Moe Norman swing...it seems to be better than 'my' swing (altho that doesn't say much)...here is my lingering question about the 1-Iron clubs:

Last year, I bought a custom fitted set of Taylor Made woods & Mizuno 825 irons...this year, I bought the complete 1-Iron set.....when I can achieve comparable shots, the driver and woods seem to perform the same as far as distance goes. However, there is a noticeable difference b/w the respective irons in each set. Obviously, the shaft length differs b/w the 2 sets. All my 1-Irons are 36.75" shafts; my Mizunos range from 38.5" (4 iron) to 35" (SW).

The clubfitter (a friend of mine) who sold me the TaylorMade & Mizunos took my 1-Irons (he was curious about them) and did a club-to-club comparison...I have the results (measuring length, loft, lie, CPM and Swing weight) and would upload it with this post if I knew how to do that...anyway, the major difference that he showed me is that the TMade & Mizunos have swing weights in the D2.5 to D3 range........the 1-Irons have swing weights in the C7.5 (driver), C3.5 for 3,5,7 woods down to about C3.5.

The difference b/w the loft of the clubs in each set is equal to about 1 club (ie: in terms of loft, my Mizuno 5 iron is 24 degrees and my 1-Iron 4 iron is 23 degrees) and so I use one more club...you would think that the 1-Iron 4 would hit about as far as the Mizuno 5, but it doesn't come close. My Mizuno 7 flew 150 yds; my 1-Iron 7 flies about 125. I need to use my 1-Iron 4 to hit it 150 yds.....I am interested in people's thoughts as to whether the big difference in swing weights could explain this, and if so, how can I change the swing weights of my 1-Iron clubs to more closely equal the s/weights of my Mizuno irons? It seems to me that the difference in distance is due, in part, to loft differences, but also due to the difference in swing weights (mass?) and that an iron with more 'mass' would impart more force, and therefor, more distance...any thoughts?...and if you know how to upload a .pdf attachment, please let me know and I will upload my comparison chart...I am going to try, but if it doesn't work, that's why. Thanks.

[Johnny1790]

Changing the swing weights of the 1-irons would be very easy, as the lip on the back of the cavity makes an ideal slot for adding lead weights into. I did this with my previous G25 irons and you should be able to buy packs of weights from any good golf shop (or ebay has loads).

Try with one club and see how you go...just add until it feels heavy enough, but not too heavy that you cannot swing fluidly. A bit of trial and error and a few range sessions. I found a little trouble in getting the weights to stick to the G25's...as they are lead, they tend to de-form a little when you swing the club...I ended up using a hot glue gun to stick them down, so I could easily peel them off if need be without scratchng the head.

There are a number of u-tube video's on the subject, but it is a very personal thing...when you find the correct feel for you, it's lovely. Have not experimented with the 1-irons with weights yet, but once I get a few more months down the track...it's bound to happen...:-)

Good luck...

[vangator]

Those 1 irons have seriously low swing weights. I imagine it is by design. Maybe David Lake has found the lighter SW is better. My SW are D2. Instead of all the lead, you might find it better to remove the grip and pour lead or tungsten powder down the shaft. Put some Gorilla glue on a small cork and ram it down the shaft. If you have vibration suppressors in the shaft, that would suck. You can remove the grips with an air compressor. There are threads on that. You could also remove the heads with a torch or heat gun and re-epoxy the heads. If you haven't built clubs before, that might be tricky. You'd need a SW scale to get the swing weights right. Sounds like you're friend could help there. If you add lead (or tungsten) tape, I'd apply it to the heal and toe equally to maintain some perimeter weighting. Plus, if you're switching back and forth between iron sets, you probably aren't swinging the 1 irons properly yet. It takes some time. There shouldn't be that much of a difference in the sets.

[Johnny1790]

Hi Vangors....

To be honest I have no idea what the SW is for the 1-irons...do you know?

I would be interested as I have played around with this before.

On the lead weights...it was just easier to experiment by sticking them on...as luck would have it, I did remove some in the end, but pouring the shafts would be the final outcome once the correct weight is determined.

cheers

J dub Ya

[dmcnab]

Hi guys....here is my update...I took my 1-Iron 7, and added lead weight to it to increase the swing weight, thinking that more mass=greater swing weight, and hence, more distance. I used the 7 iron as my 'experiment' but it didn't work very well......no noticeable increase in distance.

Experiment #2: (and I admit that I committed a 'cardinal' sin in doing this), I mixed my 1-Iron driver & fairway woods with my Mizuno irons.....I think that was a mistake, because I had to constantly adjust to a different ball position, and that is very hard to do once you have used the 1-Iron system of 'ball-in-the-center-of-your-stance position.

Experiment #3: I returned to using my 1-Iron set of clubs, and played this past Sunday....haven't been playing much and so wasn't expecting much, but on the front 9, I was 19 over (more than double bogie).....on the back 9, I changed my grip (and went back to a baseball grip+using the Moe Norman swing style)......shot 9 over on the back nine....shaved off 10 strokes b/w front and back.

.....my theory was that I was losing distance b/c I had no 'snap' in my wrists/swing.....in the past, I have used a baseball grip (with my left thumb down the shaft, so that there is still some sense of both hands being 'one unit') and so I returned to a baseball grip (because it gave me some very nice snap in my wrists) and I sent that ball sailing.....if you can 'hinge' your wrists already, then this is immaterial and won't work for everyone, but using a baseball grip is the only way that I can get my wrists to 'hinge'

.......my drives were about 20-25 yds further (and still straight) and my fairway woods and irons were almost back to normal (ie: the same distance that I had with my Mizunos).......I am very eager to play again this weekend and re-test the theory, b/c returning to my baseball grip, and playing the ball from the same spot all the time (as prescribed by 1-Iron) was clearly making it much easier to make good, consistent contact with the ball and some good snap to my swing, for the extra distance that I was missing......here is a link to another 'Moe Norman'-style video clip that explains things, especially in terms of getting 'extension' of the arms that seems to help launch the ball straight....you may have to copy the URL into your browser.... and this is my update and I hope it helps...thank each of you for your interest and help with all of this.....

http://moenormangolf.com/ar/sps-webinar-1-replay/

[vangator]

Hi Vangors....

To be honest I have no idea what the SW is for the 1-irons...do you know?

I would be interested as I have played around with this before.

On the lead weights...it was just easier to experiment by sticking them on...as luck would have it, I did remove some in the end, but pouring the shafts would be the final outcome once the correct weight is determined.

cheers

J dub Ya

You need a swing weight scale to determine that.  I don't have the 1 irons.  I have Pinhawks.  Amazingly, the heads that I got were within 1 gram of each other and were a D1 before I did any swing weighting.  If you know anyone that builds clubs, have them check your swing weights.  It only takes a few minutes, so even if they charged something, it shouldn't be much.  If you're ever in Largo Florida, I'll do it for free. :)

I just trimmed my driver from 45.5 to 44 inches and put on a super large jumbo fat monster grip.  It's called a "One Grip".  It is very heavy.  Can't find my digital scale to weigh it.  The wife borrowed it, so it could be on Mars by now.  The swing weight of my trimmed down driver is now a B8.  I'm going to buy some lead (or tungsten) tape tonight and get that thing back up to at least D2.  Maybe heavier.  A heavier club head helps smooth the backswing transition which is my major fault.

dmc, I see you live in Vero Beach.  I'm directly across the state from you in Largo.  I had and aunt and uncle that lived in Fellsmere.  Has a blinking light at it's major intersection. :)

[dmcnab]

Hi all...busy with some work this weekend, and poor weather...so, didn't play on the weekend, but hope to get out 2 or 3 times this week....will let you know if my 'new theory' ("baseball grip + Moe Norman swing" combo) still holds water for me......always an experiment !!

[dmcnab]

Hi golf loungers.....I want to update you about my progress, since my last post of Sun Oct 4th.....I have played a couple of 9 hole rounds and have not impressed myself...I sent an email to David Lake, the man behind the 1-Iron 'single length clubs' that I am using...David has been very helpful in terms of assisting me in adapting to these new clubs. I imagine that anyone using single length clubs may have the same question.  I have copied my email to David Lake, and David's reply, into this post, and ask if any of you have any thoughts on the question I raise:

On October 10, 2015 at 6:51 PM David J McNab <davidmcnab@shawcable.com> wrote:

Hi David….I am still working with my 1-Iron clubs…progress is quite evident when using the driver and fairway woods…..my distance was suffering, until I switched to a baseball grip---this allowed me to get much better wrist hinging, and some ‘snap’ in the wrists….this has really improved my distance, and the accuracy is also very good. Much the same with the woods.  Irons are a different matter….I know that you used a wrist-to-floor measurement to build the clubs. It is a matter of geometry, as I understand it. When using the irons, I am still losing distance (and I am comparing apples to apples – my #7 iron is same loft as my #8 Mizuno, but difference in distance is noticeable). I don’t seem to be able to hit the ball crisply and cleanly.  When hitting an iron, I place the ball in the center of my stance, as your Playability Tips prescribe. On occasion, I even move it slightly back of center, hoping that this will enable me to hit the ball, then the ground, and strike the ball in the same fashion as low handicappers etc. Many times, whether the ball was centered in my stance, or even a little back of center, I end up hitting it fat….I have also tried moving it slightly forward of center, and I am not sure that this helps either --- I know that it robs me of distance (probably b/c the club is de-lofted by the time it strikes the ball) and it is not a solution to hitting it fat.  My question is this: if the club design is based on geometry and if the same geometry is used for everyone (ie: using a W-to-F measure), then shouldn’t that geometry also tell me where to place the ball? Even if I center the ball in my stance, I still need to know how far away from my feet the ball should sit. If I center the ball in my stance, and I draw a line across the front of my toes, should the ball be sitting 12” ‘away’ from that line? Should the ball be 16” or 18”? Shouldn’t the geometry used to figure out club length also dictate the dimensions of a triangle where the base is a line drawn across my toes, and the ‘top’ of the triangle is where the ball should be placed? (that is, where the ball is placed relative to the front of my feet). If I could get this correct, I think that would really help with crisp ball striking using irons. Any suggestions or help is appreciated. As always, thank you.

DJM

David Lake's reply is as follows:

David,

On a hard flat surface take your address position and extend your left arm fully so that your left arm and shaft form a straight line from your left shoulder to the ball (roughly, impact position).  Then move closer to or farther away from the ball to the point where the scoring lines on the club face are parallel to the ground.  This will ensure that you are in the ideal upright address/swing posture as dictated by the 63.5º lie angle of the clubhead.  This should give you a very good idea of how far to stand from the ball at address.

David Lake, President

1 Iron Golf, Inc.

[iacas]

Equipment is not going to fix a faulty swing.

You hit it fat because your swing needs improvements.

[Johnny1790]

Hi DJM,

Definitely still progressing through this phase, but I can offer some optimism.

I have been concentrating on a much better stance. I was very C curve shaped so am trying to sit down more and have a straighter back. This has meant that I was getting very low with my hands and grounding the club with the heel (became very hooky sometimes). The wedges etc have always felt a bit awkward, but since lifting the hands at address my ball striking has become much more consistent and I'm not chunking the ball half as much. The 3-8 irons have always been good. Shots are even straighter as well. and appear to be a little longer too...shot my equal best round again at the weekend. I'm about at the 3 month mark now and I am certainly scoring better, and the "feel" is getting better and better as the weeks go by.

I hit two "pro shots" (ie ones high handicappers never hit) at the weekend and it felt awesome to stick a shot from 140m (155yds) right on the flagstick and it stop dead...twice...wicked! 

The best advice I could give is speak with David...he is a true gentleman and always helpful, also Vangator (he has many years playing SL and helped me a lot in the beginning), Watch and copy Bryson Dechanbeau's swing as best as you can, take some lessons and just persevere...it will come and when it does it is well worth the time and effort.

 

[Johnny1790]

A quick update on progress...

Have had a second lesson last Friday and played on Saturday in an Ambrose event (like a 4 ball Texas Scramble?). Have been concentrating on trying to leave the majority of weight (70%) on the left leg throughout the swing and trying not to sway at all (ie no conscious weight shift). Also, apparently I have tended to lay the club off at the top a little too much (was video’d and it is easy to spot), so promoting the odd one that goes hard left due to me throwing it too much to the outside at the beginning of the downswing.

I am working on getting the hands slightly higher and more vertical at the top of the backswing with better posture, and my ball-striking has gone mental! I am hitting so solid with equal or less effort. It is actually nice to see my swing on video as it does look quite orthodox now...no more C shape!.

So much simpler, and easier to repeat. Keeping the weight more on the left side and just swinging through…also I have hardly any wrist beak at all at the moment (will give it a few more weeks and may introduce more depending on how I am going). It does feel a little odd, but the ball striking is markedly better.

The pro who is coaching me is an Ex Australian Ladies Amateur Champion, and the drills she comes up with are really easy to follow and are making the muscle memory changes sink in pretty easily. I hit over 70% of the fairways at the weekend and GIR’d 6 holes…even birdied one on my own…knocked a 160m uphill par 3 to 3 feet and holed it. I always seem to be saying that I’m hitting straighter, but this week was by far the best ever…I just split fairways…over and over again. One more good round and I will be into the 15’s and if I had not been playing in a team event it would have been this week.

The consistency with a left leg weight bias just seems to simplify everything else and the swing now “feels” very simple and uncomplicated. There is probably a “style” for what this kind of swing is but I don’t know the name….more updates in a couple of weeks…cheers J

[vangator]

Are you sure your not getting any wrist break?  Is that what you're seeing on video?  It's hard to get any real distance without the wrists.

Is the pro having you keep your weight on your left side?  That's kind of a Stack and Tilt thing.  Sounds like a cross between SnT and Jim Venetos.

Anyway, it sounds like you're really improving.  The consistency of the single length clubs got me to want to improve my swing.  Sounds like it's doing the same for you.

I need to increase my fairways hit, but the GIR is doing well.  I played a scramble last week where I personally hit 15/18 GIR.  All GIR missed were with a hybrid and just off the green.  Two of those were our only bogeys.  The rough was brutal.  That's a lot of GIR, but only a few were really close.  Too many long putts.  We came in tied for first though.

[craps]

There are no needles with both pointed ends. While one length clubs are easier to hit from 3-7, but the shorter irons will not be good unless you choke down accordingly.Try hitting 38" pitching wedge from 100 yards. Half swing? Choke down? Full swing and the ball will go 100 feet in the air. On a windy day? Good Luck.

Edited October 23, 2015 by craps

[Johnny1790]

Apologies Vangator....re-reading my post I probably should have said "no consious wrist break"...there is obviously some going on, but nothing I am focusing on. Another range session last night and still a good consistent strike though all of the clubs in the set. Most notably the wedges, much crisper contact. Will see tomorrow if I can take this to the course. 

 

Hi Craps...I guess on a very windy day from 100yds out I would not take a PW..prob an 8 iron back in the stance...with a half shot. The single length wedges definitely can fly very high with a full shot, but I I have seldom found any time I need to use one. A longer club hit softer will have more than enough height and spin to clear a hazard and stop quickly enough for me. 

I will put my hand up and say that the SL wedges do initially take some time to get used to, but that is more to do with what clubs most of us have been used to hitting previously. (ie if you had never picked up a mixed length set before you would know no different). The GW is now by far the best wedge I have played, but I generally never take a full swing...it can hit anything from 30m through 75m...I just vary the back swing to suit. I am lucky if the LW comes out of the bag once in every three rounds...and only if there is a bunker/water directly between me and the hole and the flag is just over it, and less than 30m....not sure why I would take a full swing with a scoring iron anyway...if I was a little more skilled maybe...?

Do you play SL by the way? (if so, which kind have you got?)

 

 

[Johnny1790]

..I actually got fitted for a set of TW irons just before I bought the Ping's. The trial club was very nice, but for whatever reason just did not suit me (I'm sure if I had played with a few more variations I would have found something that worked for me). If I had not found the 1-irons when I did I would probably be back trialing a TW set again.

Everything in Tom Wishon's book I have found to be correct thus far. 

My 3 iron is far easier and more accurate than my 3 hybrid ever was.