Slow body, fast arms?

[bunkerputt]

My misses are push hooks (15%), hooks (15%), and pull hooks (70%). The club almost always snaps against the back of my neck on my full swings. This seems to indicate to me that my body just isn't turning fast enough through the shot. My clubhead speed is fine (Driver 115, max 120), but I'm getting sick of having no option higher than a 4-iron off the tee without having to find some way to compensate for missing left. I think I'm starting the club down the right line, but at some point it gets across so that my divots point slightly left on poorly struck shots. At one point I was struggling with not completing my backswing which put my arms too high when the downswing began. They never had time to drop into the slot, so my delivery path was always a little out to in. I feel like I'm always walking a fine line between push and pull. How do you synchronize your arm swing and body turn? I've gone to a much shorter backswing which has helped some, but I still struggle quite a bit.

[billm408]

For me... I don't think arm swing at all. I initiate my downswing with a weight shift followed by rotation of the hips. The arms have no choice but to follow. Here's two drills that might help or at least give you a better feel for that "synchronized" move.

1. Full swings with your left arm only. IME, an arm swing indicates too much right hand force.

2. Take full swings holding the club with your thumbs and index fingers only. this removes your forearms from your swing and forces you to use the bigger muscles.

And FWIW, I believe that proper swing path is inside in so your divots should be going left of target.

[RC]

Pull hooks are usually a result of the body not turning fast enough to keep up with the arms, so you have your answer. Your upper body should always react to the lower body, and your arms and hands to your body trunk. No matter how fast you can swing with your arms, the support of your body is what will allow you to square the club reliably. An overly arm and hands type swing requires too much timing and is susceptible tp breaking down under pressure. A body based swing uses big muscles and motions easier to reproduce. I happen to think the club is squared by the posting up on the the left hip as it turns -- if your grip and swing path are right, the body turn will deliver the club head square at the moment of impact.

It is true, I don't ever think of my hands or arms when swinging. They do their thing as a result of the body doing its thing. Yes, the length of the back swing may change, but after that, the downswing is pretty much the same for every shot, unless you are clearly trying to hit a special shot to work the ball. Perhaps the only exception is putting, because my body opens even on little chip shots, dragging the arms through ("dragging" is not really a good word here, but it is a coordinated move in which every part of the swing is sequenced.)

There are teachers who teach the idea of swing the arms and the body will do everything correctly, but I am not talented enough to do that. So, my opinion is anyone who can swing 115 to 120 mph should build a solid body based swing and take advantage of the more reliable big muscles. Frankly, I want my body to turn on the downswing as fast as it can within the context of a controlled swing. I want the upper body to appear effortless, while the legs and hips are driving through the shot with all the power I can generate. Watch the pros... they look pretty smooth, but their lower bodies are amazingly efficient at providing power.

[bunkerputt]

Thanks guys. At one point in my golf swing development, when my body would turn, it would turn through so quickly that I started experiencing quite a bit of pain in the back and front of my left shoulder. This was mainly because my body turn would increase the stretch too much in my shoulders. My arms are pretty heavy for a golfer (~18in or so) so they tend to lag behind quite a bit. To help this I've started trying to get the club in front of my body a little bit before I really crank through. That is, I'm trying to create some space between my left arm and left shirt pocket at the start of my downswing. This is mainly an injury prevention mechanism and may be poor swing mechanics. I have some footage, but it's pretty old and I've made some significant changes since then: shorter arm swing, full shoulder turn, full hip turn, less reverse pivot, less lateral movement. I'll take some at the range tomorrow and post it here.

[bunkerputt]

Revelation: I was hitting it well for a while last year, very slight push, very slight draw ending up along the line where I was aiming. Then at some point the slight push turned into a slight pull which turned into a big pull and the draw turned into a hook. In an effort to keep my swing center stabilized, I think I killed my lateral hip bump which caused me to pull my shoulders across the line at the top and come in too steep with the club trapped requiring a flip to square it. Today at the range I was just focusing on getting into a natural rhythm in my transition with a slight lateral hip bump to start while trying to keep my head back. I didn't pull hook a single shot. Though I did hit about a 5* pull with my 3-wood once. The little push draw even came back at one point. I was hitting my 3-wood really well and my 9-iron pretty decently (~15ft spread), but I started shanking my wedges. I know shorter clubs require less of a bump, which could explain why I was shanking the higher clubs. The large hip bump, combined with keeping my head back flattens the downswing too much for those clubs and causes me to present the hosel to the ball. My excitement was soon shattered by the revelation, "How in the world am I going to throttle this differently for each club and hope to gain consistency?". I was a really good wedge player yesterday, when I had very little hip bump. I just struggled off the tee. Now I feel pretty confident off the tee but worried from 100 yards and in. What do you guys do to get the hips moving in the right amount at the top of the backswing?

[TN94z]

Pull hooks are usually a result of the body not turning fast enough to keep up with the arms, so you have your answer. Your upper body should always react to the lower body, and your arms and hands to your body trunk. No matter how fast you can swing with your arms, the support of your body is what will allow you to square the club reliably. An overly arm and hands type swing requires too much timing and is susceptible tp breaking down under pressure. A body based swing uses big muscles and motions easier to reproduce. I happen to think the club is squared by the posting up on the the left hip as it turns -- if your grip and swing path are right, the body turn will deliver the club head square at the moment of impact.

VERY good explanation!!!

[RC]

Thanks TN94z,

There is one corollary to what I said. Many people try to body swing, but they get trapped on the backswing, letting the club come inside too quickly. The hands and arms do come back inside, but the club shaft simply cannot point to the right of your target line when you are at 3 O'clock on the backswing -- straight at the target or even slightly left is OK. When the club gets under and too much inside, you hit pushes and push slices, or do some big correction and smother the ball left or come over it and slice it big time (at least some of the time.)

You hear people say it all the time, even talking about the pros. "He got trapped with the club behind him." What that means is the club wraps around into a place where a proper weight shift and turn gets ahead of the club, and the arms cannot come down the line and then left. It also means the club gets behind and past the chest. The shoulder turns needs to be big, but the arms and club should stay more in front of the body and the right hip should not turn back slackly and too far to catch up on the downswing. That's why I always want max shoulder turn and minimum hip turn on the back swing.