Screw your feet into the ground

[bunkerputt]

I recently watched a youtube video where the recommendation was to screw both of your feet clockwise into the ground throughout your backswing and downswing. The claim was that this "pre-torque" was used by Ben Hogan and Moe Norman to key the proper lower body movement. Has anyone heard of this?

[grantc79]

I recently watched a youtube video where the recommendation was to screw both of your feet clockwise into the ground throughout your backswing and downswing. The claim was that this "pre-torque" was used by Ben Hogan and Moe Norman to key the proper lower body movement. Has anyone heard of this?

Ben Hogan I'm not sure on. Moe Norman I can assure you didn't really have this swing thought.

In essence its a good "feeling" to have because that way you feel like you are creating power from the ground up as you should. Another good feeling is to try to push your left foot down into the ground at the top of your back swing. That said, you don't actually screw your feet into the ground.

[bunkerputt]

...Another good feeling is to try to push your left foot down into the ground at the top of your back swing....

That's my swing thought. I'd never tried 'screwing' which seems to engage the hip adductors (pull in) rather than the abductors (push out). The adductors, at least on my body, are about an order of magnitude weaker than their counterparts. So I always try to engage the strongest muscles to do the labor.

[shortstop20]

I do this before every shot, it is a trigger for me to start my swing. For me it works wonderfully. Everybody is different though as we know.

[ninetwothree]

It sounds like you got a little Sevam1 info. He's right on with his talks about using the ground.



You get a little of moe's personality there too... cool video.


Hogan did this too.



If you pause it at 1:08/1:09 you can see how he is getting his back leg into position to really push the ground. He had an extra spike put in his right shoe you know....

[bunkerputt]

...It sounds like you got a little Sevam1 info....

That's exactly what it was. That guy (I think his name is Mike), seems to have a very interesting viewpoint on the swing. It seems hard to argue with him from the outset. What is this "Move" he is talking about? How do you execute it? How much torque is needed? It looks like, in the Ben Hogan video, right when his transition starts he is almost falling forward slightly as his lead leg bends. Then he stands up into his lead leg. Almost like he's bending at the top in order to push off of it on the downswing. I've tried to do this move at the range and can't quite seem to get it right. I'm judging by my ball-flight, which is either shanked or topped. I think maybe I'm straightening my left leg too much, or I'm doing it correctly, but not leaning away from the target to compensate. That puts me on top of the ball instead of behind it.

[shortstop20]

Not sure what Sevam does but Hogan always played the ball the same amount of distance off his left foot, he just moved his right foot closer or further away from his left foot depending on the club. I think that further forward ball position would be needed if a person is trying to copy Hogan's legwork.

I certainly wouldn't mind having Hogan's legwork(who would?) but at the moment I only use the feeling of having the right leg screwed into the ground, I don't have that big lateral slide on the downswing like Hogan does.

[grantc79]

What you guys have to consider is that they had vastly different swings.

Hogan was a pure swinger and had a ton of rotational forces in his body to generate power.
Norman was a pure hitter who simply planted his feet and anchored off of his left leg and pushed with his right arm.


Watch how little Norman's body torques and turns in comparison to Hogan's. Norman anchored his weight on his left leg and it never really leaves his left leg. Hogan is the exact opposite.

[ninetwothree]

Its all in the feet and how you can create pressure and get energy from the ground.

In the hogan video, you can see that his right leg and hip actually move towards the target before the top of the backswing.

The more angle there is in the back leg, the more you can push the inside of you back foot into the ground.

[MiniMoe]

Actually, Moe and Hogan anchored their swings with the ball of the right foot. Both Moe and Hogan placed the ball in the same position in relation to the left foot, and moved the right foot more narrow or more wide depending on the shot. Right at the moment of transition, Moe shifted his weight with the little slide. That same move also set his wrists to produce a lot of power. He called it "effortless power". Notice also that Moe's right foot does not leave the ground until well after impact. The right foot is the driving force to his swing.

[n8ron]

I am bleeding after trying this. Did I do something wrong?

[ninetwothree]

Nice call MM - they did anchor their right foot into the ground. Hogan did it in his address position where he let his right knee come in a little bit before the takeaway.

Moe's transition was the "horizontal tug and the vertical drop". The move left (horizontal tug) increased his wrist angle slightly and let his arms drop down a little (vertical drop)

Try this drill my coach gave me. It really helps with the feeling of using your feet.

[grantc79]

Actually, Moe and Hogan anchored their swings with the ball of the right foot. Both Moe and Hogan placed the ball in the same position in relation to the left foot, and moved the right foot more narrow or more wide depending on the shot. Right at the moment of transition, Moe shifted his weight with the little slide. That same move also set his wrists to produce a lot of power. He called it "effortless power". Notice also that Moe's right foot does not leave the ground until well after impact. The right foot is the driving force to his swing.

Sorry, but that is completely wrong.

I'm very familiar with Moe's swing because my coach wanted me to mimic it due to my own flexibility problems. Moe Norman is a right arm hitter. He stays anchored on his left side virtually throughout his swing. The right arm is the driving force of Moe's swing. The right foot literally doesn't do anything. That is why it doesn't move off the ground. Basically if you are familiar with The Golfing Machine you know of hitters and swingers. Trevino, Palmer, and Norman are all famous hitters. They do not use rotational/centrifugal force to power the club head. They simply use the right shoulder and right arm to drive club down into impact. The point of this technique is its easier on the joints, easier on the back, and literally you can hit the ball as hard as you can shove with the butt of your right hand. It doesn't require a huge shoulder turn with a minimal waist turn. Or the flexibility of a gymnast. Watch this video and you will understand what I mean. Now watch this one and notice the similarities: The part when they say the biggest compliment is when PGA guys will come over just to watch you swing. They came to watch him swing because he hit the ball so straight and his swing looked so completely unorthodox. He hit is so straight because as a hitter there is no wrist uncocking at impact and the roll is very gradual and EXTREMELY easy to control. His swing looks so unorthodox because 99% of the golfers out there are swingers and have no idea what a hitter is. Thus when they see someone with virtually no weight shift and virtually no pivot they have no idea what is going on and immediately assume that they are doing something wrong. I work on hitting from time to time and as recent as yesterday I have had know it alls come up to me and say" Them: "You aren't using your hips/legs at all" Me: "I know" Them: "Why don't you let our hips move and transfer your weight more" Me: "Because I don't want to" Them: "Why not" Me: "Because I'm hitting not swinging" Them: "Oh, well you shouldn't hit the ball you should try to swing through it" Here's another good video:

[Rex]

On 5/27/2009 at 3:53 PM, bunkerputt said:

I recently watched a youtube video where the recommendation was to screw both of your feet clockwise into the ground throughout your backswing and downswing. The claim was that this "pre-torque" was used by Ben Hogan and Moe Norman to key the proper lower body movement. Has anyone heard of this?

It works. Maves is the first guy I ever heard say it. 

Rory appears to make a special effort to do it.

 

[iacas]

5 minutes ago, Rex said:

It works. Maves is the first guy I ever heard say it. 

Thanks for joining. Mike talked a lot about this, yeah. Particularly with the right foot on the backswing.