Madoff sentencing for ponzi scheme tomorrow

[alf174]

It'll be interesting to see what his sentence will be. I'm also curious about anyone that worked for him and perpetuated the scheme.

On another note, the TV coverage of some of Madoff's victims seem to be trying to get the listener to be sympathetic to their situation. Interview's are done in the victim's Central Park side or Miami mansion homes. I mean, c'mon, how ridiculous.
[/rant]

[kfowler]

Did you read the article on him in I believe Golf Digest? Pretty interesting. Talks about the people he associate with at the county clubs. Lady said you never heard him talk business or ask people to get involved. People new he had a reputation for making money. Say they fought to get into his inner circle so they could give him money to invest. Quite the scam artist.

[alf174]

Yes I did. He also convinced many non-profit organizations to invest with him and those organizations were really hit bad. Its amazing it went so long before it crashed.

[TheNatural]

Just pay some people to go around saying " yea I wish I could invest with him, but I only have a million to work with. He starts at 10 million per investor and the returns are usually %30"

Its sort of like putting people in an audience to say I bought that product and it worked for me!

The smart ones were the people that allowed their CPA or legal staff to question his practices. He would say, "we are not the right firm for you" usually a bad sign.


I have no sympathy for the investors or the crooks. GREED did get the better of them all. Didnt it?

[kfowler]

While I agree that greed was certainly a huge part of it, I can see how investors could fall for it. If they have a friend, someone they trust, who says their getting huge returns from Madoff, I can see how they would fall for it. Most people never ask the right questions in the first place. Even if the thing seems to good to be true. The whole thing kind of reminded me of the movie "The Boiler Room".

[alf174]

To keep such a scheme going for so long, there would have had to be someone else in this conspiracy. From what I've read in the news, no other charges have been brought up yet on anyone else.

[Shindig]

I have no sympathy for the investors or the crooks. GREED did get the better of them all. Didnt it?

I'm glad someone else said this - I agree completely. I frequently hear people ranting about the greedy of the crooks, or the greed of the investors, while ignoring the other one's part. It's obvious to me that both were greedy and both are to blame. As others have noted, here and elsewhere, Madoff's claims failed the simple sniff test.

I wonder how soon it is to make Madoff jokes. I've made a few in person and got mixed reactions.

[Uber$winG]

His sentence is 150 years…

My favorite part of this whole scheme was the fact that he was the Managing Director of a billion dollar hedge fund and the accountant was a one-man show in half a strip mall in Jersey… Due diligence anyone?

[Fraser]

I have no sympathy for the investors or the crooks. GREED did get the better of them all. Didnt it?

The crooks maybe but the

investors ? Did greed get the better of them all? Well, on the face of it yes but can you blame someone for investing money with someone who had a second-to-none reputation before all this came out? After all 30% returns aren't, or should I say, weren't all that crazy if you invest in the hedge fund world.

[Shindig]

The crooks maybe but the

When someone is beating the market that consistently, and won't follow some pretty standard practices (such as accounting audits), then yes, you're letting greed get the better of you if you give this person money. While there were probably some reasonable things that might have returned 30% for some time, the average for the market itself is so far below that that anyone could know that this wasn't reasonable. On top of it, none of the people investing with Madoff knew what he was doing with the money. Investing is when you know what you're putting your money into - such as when I put my money into an S&P; index fund, as you can do with companies like Vanguard. You know what it's called when you don't know what you're putting your money into? It's called speculation and it's a form of gambling. Let's stop calling the people who gave their money to Madoff under these circumstances investors: they were gamblers, plain and simple. Just because they thought they had a sure thing doesn't mean they did.

[Uber$winG]

The crooks maybe but the

Fraser, I’d like to know where you got the idea that 30% wasn’t all that uncommon in the hedge fund world (it’s 20% tops). The hedge fund for which I work has a hurdle rate of 18.5%.

[TheNatural]

MONEY and COMMON SENSE DONT GO HAND IN HAND

MONEY AND GREED SEEM TO GET ALONG BETTER

EXPENSES RISE TO MEET INCOME.

[ks8829]

I do not believe the wife should be able to keep over 2 million dollars as the news have reported when so many people and their kids and families have lost everything and need to sell what they have just to survive.

Madoff should be made to listen to everybody that wants to tell him how he has ruined their lives as part of the punishment for his crime.

[PEZGolf]

150 years---he deserves it. He looked people directly in the eye, when he was seeking their money, assured them that he could be trusted, and then "stabbed them in the back". People have written that he was an intelligent, charming man. So---here is my question---what make him think that he was going to get away with it? Everyone knows the history of the stock market, and all markets---they are cyclical. In a bear market, as values drop, a Ponzi scheme is doomed as new money cannnot be attracted, and existing investors expect payments. Once the cash flow is disrupted, the whole fraud is exposed. Why did Madoff think that he would be immune from these fundamental laws? To be honest, I cannot explain it to myself satisfactorily. The judge was correct in calling him an evil man, and imposing the maximum sentence.

[ks8829]

He had the perfect name for his crime:

Made off

[TheNatural]

the schemer was hoping the market would soar so he could dig himself out of the hole. many ponzi schemes were exposed recently. across the globe

[Dugie]

glad he got the max...

[alf174]

I read that investigators will go back in the fund's history and retrieve any profits paid out to investors that got out before the floor dropped out. The idea is that the losses will be spread out evenly amongst all participants. So, its not over.