Trying to understand Private Golf Club memberships...

[Schikk]

Total Noob question here...

(Be patient with me, I may still be pretty green when it comes to golf, but I can assure you I'm also damn keen!)

I'm looking to investigate a couple of my local (Vancouver, BC) private golf clubs and I'm trying to arm myself with a basic understanding of how membership works.

I know that things work differently at most clubs and can vary to a huge degree but in very general terms I'd like to hear from you guys about the more common components of club membership.

This is what I'm hoping to find out more about...

-initial entrance fee - what type of price range? how much discount does one get for being under 35? what kind of installments can be paid?

-annual dues - how large are the dues relative to the initial payment? are these dues on top of your spending obligation?

-spending obligation - is this generally for food, drinks and guests? how large is this amount?

-do most clubs have affiliate courses where you can also play? do you get a discount at affiliates or is it free?

-once you become a member at one club, are you pretty much married to that club for life or can you transfer memberships?

-what are the pros/cons of annual membership vs. lifetime?

Basically, I'm looking for a lot of input here!
Any tips, thoughts, pros, cons, pitfalls, ideas, etc. would be greatly appreciated!!
Thanks!

[whetstone]

All good questions, and all will have to answered by individual clubs. The CC I belong to has different membership packages to suit different needs. I had no initiation fee, and pay monthly. My membership includes green fees, cart fees, and pool usage for the entire family. We don't have any affiliate courses, so if I play elsewhere I pay just like everyone else.

[whetstone]

Forgot to add:
I can't find any cons to being a member if you're playing enough golf to justify the dues. One of the best things about it is not feeling obligated to play 18 every time you go out. If I pay a green fee, I want to play what I paid for. With a membership, if you have time to play 9, or just 5-6 holes, the cost is the same. If you have time to play 36 in a day, it still costs the same. That being said, there's something comforting about walking into a clubhouse where the staff greets you by name, and probably knows what you're there for.

[lumpuckeroo]

I am not a club member but my brother and friend both joined a club. Both had initiation fee, monthly fee, food and drink minimum, special assesment fee. Cart was not include nor were range balls, pool usage was for the family.

Both quit thier clubs for different reasons, the special assesment fees at my brother's club was almost as much as the monthly fee. My friend quit as his club was always hosting some special event and had a hard time getting on the course. Both of them complained that it was hard to get weekend tee times as the "old guard" had standing tee times so getting an 8:00 am tee time was impossible.

[case31]

Initiation Fee

: Can go from $0 to just about infinity. When you shop around courses, ask their membership director how many members they have, average age, and how much membership has changed in the last couple years. You'll find that some courses have been hit harder by the economy than others, and that knowledge will tell you if you can negotiate the initiation fee. If you end up paying this fee, it is typical (at least around me) that you pay the fee and lock into a 3-year contract, which allows you to spread your payments over 3 years. Annual Dues : Courses handle this differently. Around here have monthly dues. That typically includes golf, clubhouse dues, and food & beverage minimums. Annual Dues come in the form of an assessment, which is a pool of money courses collect and use to make improvements (i.e. new irrigation system). Again, fees have almost an infinite range. Food & Beverage Minimums : If your course has a clubhouse with a nice restaurant, then you can take advantage of this. The club I used to belong to only had a bar. You could get hot dogs, sandwiches, chips, etc., but no restaurant. Here's how I got around this: Toward the end of each month, I would tally up how much I was under my minimum. I would then buy bottled water, Powerade, and snacks to take home. This way I was getting my money's worth instead of just throwing it away. Affiliate Courses : This is common. The better courses will have affiliations with courses outside your city, which is nice when you travel. Typically, the nicer the course, the more affiliations.

once you become a member at one club, are you pretty much married to that club for life or can you transfer memberships?

Nope. The course I belonged to had no initiation fee, no assessment, and no contract. I decided not to renew because A) the course was 40 minutes away from my house, B) I wasn't working from home like I was the year before, meaning I would not be able to get out as often, and C) gas was $4/gallon, making the commute super expensive. I don't know about transferring memberships to other courses. My guess would be that once you've entered into the 3 year (or whatever length of time) commitment to one course, you're stuck for that timeframe.

what are the pros/cons of annual membership vs. lifetime?

With an annual membership, you can leave if they raise the rates significantly from one year to the next. Or, if you get tired of the course, you can go somewhere else with no worries.

With a lifetime membership, I see most of the benefits coming with being part of one of the super high-end clubs. Maybe you lock into a certain price structure that is more manageable. In most cases, you can't look at a country club membership in terms of "If I play X number of times per year, I will get my money's worth". There are usually too many other expenses that go along with the golf. You usually join for the convenience (can you cruise out on a Saturday afternoon or after work and play immediately?), the leagues, and the social opportunities.

[Schikk]

Awesome feedback so far, thanks guys!

I guess what I need to do is just knuckle down and start calling around to get some specific detials about dollars and cents...

I really appreciate the input, keep it coming!

[Clambake]

Some other factors to inquire about :

Equity versus Non-Equity: Some clubs are literally owned by the members (equity) - you own a share of the land, buildings, liabilities, etc. There is an intrinsic value in this that has investment qualities just like investing in real estate. However, you also have a investment that may or may not have liquidity. You also will be subject to assessments as deemed necessary by the club. If the club decides to build a new $2 million clubhouse, you get to pay your share. And it isn't necessary easy to get out then (see below on exiting a club), and if you can't exit you still have a legal obligation for your share of the clubs liabilities. But you're a member, and do have a say in the operations of the clubs and a chance to influence. Non-equity clubs are typically owned by an investment group and they sell memberships to generate partnership revenue. You don't actually own anything though, you just have a contractual commitment to pay them money in return for club services. You don't really have any influence or say in how the club is run, and typically your membership has no investment value.

Local and Non-Local Members: Ask about the geographic distribution of their membership. A club with nearly all local members will likely mean a lot of play on the course, while clubs who have more non-locals will likely be less crowded (for equivalent size memberships). A good example of this is Augusta; they just have very few local members, and hence the place is nearly always pretty empty.

Exit Restrictions: Inquire about their policy for selling your membership. Some clubs will not allow you to sell your membership on your own and you have to go through the club. Some clubs will freely buy back your membership (typically after you've met some minimum requirement like being a member for a certain number of years). Some will allow open-market sales but will charge you a fee to get their cut. An example is a club in Los Angeles that would allow you to sell but would charge a transfer fee equal to 1/2 of the current new membership selling price; this essentially made the maximum sale price to be signficantly less than 1/2 of what the original member paid. Some clubs don't have any restrictions at all and you can just walk away. This area varies widely from club to club.

Waiting Lists: You likely already know about asking about a waiting list to purchase a membership, but also inquire about selling. In clubs that restrict members from exiting the club, they may have a waiting list of members looking to get out of their membership commitments, and sometimes a person cannot sell unless a new member comes in and buys. This is seen a lot these days with the economy's impact on private clubs. Also, look at the exit waiting lists as a potential barometer of member satisfaction with the club. A long list of people trying to get out is a pretty good indicator of dissatisfied members.

Special Events Marketing: Ask about the history of special events at the club to help you determine how this will impact you as a member. Some clubs are very liberal about selling availability to corporations or the public, and you may find that your tee times are more limited, or the course gets too much play, or days that you were planning on were blocked out for outside tourneys. A friend of mine worked part time and had Mondays and Tuesdays off each week, but found out his new club pretty much booked up those days selling corporate tournaments on those days - he wasn't happy.

Maintenance Budgets: Some clubs will reveal this if asked, and if so it is a good way for you to get a feel for how well maintained the course will be (mostly useful if you can compare different courses).

Gratuities: Ask about the clubs policy on gratuities for the staff. Some clubs just have a fixed fee per month to cover these, while some leave it to individual discretion with each staff member. This may not seem like much, but it can add up pretty quickly when you tip the various people who help you each time you play. A friend who was a member of a premium club here in San Diego found he was paying almost as much in tips each month as his monthly dues during those months that he played a lot.

Do Your Own Reference Checks: Most of the more exclusive clubs will require that you be referred by existing members and pass muster. Don't forget to do your own due diligence and speak with members at the club. You need to know if they're satisfied. Find out what they like best about the club, and what they like the least.

[enduro]

I almost joined a "semi-private" club here. And it would be a decent deal if golfed there a couple times every week, which I easily would have. But the thought of playing the same course all the time wasn't appealing for that money. Plus their driving range absolutly sucked.

There is another semi-private I'm thinking of joining next year as they have a great range (awesome grass tees and covered mat tees) and other practice facilities. They also have 2 courses which play differently so it keeps the variety there. You also get to book tee times ahead of others and get a cart and unlimited use of facilities. No pool or anything cool though, just golf.

For $1200.00 its a good deal imo. You figure if you spend $10.00 at the range, 3 times a week, for 24 weeks a year (cold weather climate) that's $720.00 right there. The typical round with a cart at a place of this grade is $50.00 around here on the weekends and probably around $30.00 on weekdays. If you play this around 12 times you're covered. If you play it once a week that's around $1000.00 right there. So it makes sense.

But it isn't a "prestige" kind of golf club. Just a place that you can be a member and get a better deal and invitations to special events.

[Golfaway]

I can't find any cons to being a member if you're playing enough golf to justify the dues. One of the best things about it is not feeling obligated to play 18 every time you go out. If I pay a green fee, I want to play what I paid for. With a membership, if you have time to play 9, or just 5-6 holes, the cost is the same. If you have time to play 36 in a day, it still costs the same. That being said, there's something comforting about walking into a clubhouse where the staff greets you by name, and probably knows what you're there for.

Exactly.

Almost every one knows me by name at my club.