The Plane Truth...

[elivate]

I was just reading through some threads here after watching that informercial for a while yesterday. I was just wondering if someone could explain the difference between the One-Plane Swing and the Two-Plane Swing? How do I know which one I use?

Thanks!

[iacas]

I was just reading through some threads here after watching that informercial for a while yesterday. I was just wondering if someone could explain the difference between the One-Plane Swing and the Two-Plane Swing? How do I know which one I use?

Probably the type of question that would take a book to answer... oh wait, it did!

The simple answer is: if you take the club back on a different plane than the one you use to come through the ball, you have a two-plane swing. Most amateurs have about a six-plane swing. If your handicap index truly is 30, you may be better off exploring other things before you get too technical. Though I'm not saying you should put it off until you're a 9 handicap, waiting until you're a bogey golfer wouldn't be a bad idea. You can get there, probably, by working on putting, chipping, pitching, and other short game stuff - there's no one/two-plane argument on chip shots.

[elivate]

Very true, I suppose I have a ot of things I should be working on first... I need to change that 30 though, I am more like a 29. haha...

Anyway, I guess I was just thinking that I should worry more about hitting fairways and getting more approach shots on the greens before putting and chipping... I am ok at putting and chipping, not great, and I do lose strokes around the greens, but what makes me most frustrated about golf is the 4-5 penalty strokes from hitting drives into the woods, or water, or whatever else isn't the fairway...

Is this putting the cart before the horse?

[allin]

If you are hitting a lot of shots into the water or ob, evaluate your club shot selections. Are you hitting driver when you could hit a 3 wd or 5wd and probably make bogey. Do you take enough club? Right now you probably hit your irons inconsistent distances. Always take a club you know you can hit at least the distance you need to go. I guess I am saying course management can make a huge difference, combined with Erics advice which has been proven over and over again at all handicap levels, you could probably drop to an 18 quickly. If you take lessons from a pro who teaches the one plane two plane philosophy, he may be able to advise you which is closer to your natural swing. Age and body type are factors also.

[elivate]

If you are hitting a lot of shots into the water or ob, evaluate your club shot selections. Are you hitting driver when you could hit a 3 wd or 5wd and probably make bogey. Do you take enough club? Right now you probably hit your irons inconsistent distances. Always take a club you know you can hit at least the distance you need to go. I guess I am saying course management can make a huge difference, combined with Erics advice which has been proven over and over again at all handicap levels, you could probably drop to an 18 quickly. If you take lessons from a pro who teaches the one plane two plane philosophy, he may be able to advise you which is closer to your natural swing. Age and body type are factors also.

Thanks Allin, for me distance is not the issue, I can hit my irons the same distance pretty consistantly, it is the hitting to the left or to the right that kills me. For example, (When I actually hit the fairway) If I am sitting directly at the 150 yard marker and it is a level green I hit my 8 iron every time. This is a very good distance for me, but the problem is I hit the green maybe 4 out of 10 times... It is frustrating to miss the green that often from a fairly easy distance... Of course then I usually have to chip and that does cost strokes for sure, but my point was that if I could start hitting fairways, then hit greens, those lost chipping strokes would not be so common...

So do you focus on chipping because you can't hit the green or do you focus on hitting the green so you don't have to chip?

[gas_can]

Probably the type of question that would take a book to answer... oh wait, it did!

iacas,

Just to be pefectly clear, this is not true. The Hardy model of the one and two plane swings involve the relationship between the arm-club plane and shoulder plane. If your arms and shoulders swing on the same plane, you are a one plane swinger. One planers to me are guys like Vijay Singh, Chad Campbell, Ben Hogan. If the arms and shouders swing on different planes, you are a two plane swinger. Byron Nelson, David Toms, and Davis Love III would be my 2 plane models. elivate, Jim tends to favor the one plane swing for two reasons. 1. It is a position swing, not a timing one. If you can get your body parts in the correct positions, timing, tempo, balance, and rhythm are non factors. You can swing as hard and as fast as you want and the ball goes straight and high. 2. The one plane golf swing is easier on your body than a two plane swing. Both Peter Jacobsen and Don Pooley have extneded careers which were nearly ended by back injuries by switching to the one plane swing. However, the one plane golf swing does require a fair amount of flexibility to achieve these positions. This is the deciding factor. On the DVD set, Mr. Hardy has a great drill to help viewers decide if they are flexibile enough to perform the one plane swing. The DVD is excellent. It does a far better job of illustrating the elusive backswing and downswing feelings than the book does. Especially the "rotation" of the forearms during the backswing and the "palm down" feeling at impact. It costs $100, which seems a little pricey, but it is very much worth it if you're serious about switching to the one plane swing. You would also be well served to go to Jim's website and look up one of his trained instructors: http://www.jimhardygolf.com/Default.aspx?tabid=54

[elivate]

Thanks gas_can... I am very curious about this, it may go on my Christmas wish list this year

[supercow]

There's also a book about this whole issue with an article on the Golf Digest website:

http://www.golfdigest.com/instructio...ingplane2.html

To be honest with you though some aspects of the theories seemed kind of strange to me especially the part about the one plane swing commencing with an over-the-top move....

Binh.

[gas_can]

There's also a book about this whole issue with an article on the Golf Digest website:

BNguyen,

Thanks for helping me clear up the two biggest myths about the Hardy one plane golf swing. iacas let me define exactly what a one and two plane are, and you've brought up the myth about the "over the top move." The golf swing is a circle around your body, as long as you retain a bent spine angle, it is physically impossible for the club to go over the top since it is coming on the same plane as your shoulders. People commonly think it's over the top since the downswing is initiated by the shoulders. If you stand up and turn your shoulders (two plane golf swing), then you will come over the top.

[jamesduncan]

and just to make things even more confusing, Haney relates everything to shaft plane...

oye veh!

but good advice abounds on this thread.

[iacas]

Just to be pefectly clear, this is not true. The Hardy model of the one and two plane swings involve the relationship between the arm-club plane and shoulder plane.

My overly simple explanation was an attempt to boil it down while simultaneously moving a 30-handicapper on to topics that would be more germane to his improvement at this time.

[unscathed]

Apologies for not running a search prior to authoring my own Plane thread. I was pointed to this thread with the help of iacas.

This thread discusses more of the basics of the two schools, but I'm curious as to how many have tried both and which one they prefer/had the most success with.

So far, I'm pretty sold on the 1-plan method, but the shoulder turning down almost makes me feel like I'm reverse-pivoting. Anybody else have that feeling?

Your thoughts?

[allin]

I have tried both. Two plane I hit the ball higher and 5-10 yards farther with a slight fade. One plane I hit it a little lower and tend to draw the ball. On the course I have settled on the one plane because I am more consistent with it and my misses are better, espeically in a competive situation. I am working on giving my middle aged body a little more flexibility to try and gain back the lost ten yards.

[fanofsaosin]

i've been working on my one plane swing for about a month or 2 now. I read hank haney's book. I like the way he explains his theory on the one plane but from the book it has charateristics of a two plane. He describes a hip bump to initiate the downswing. The peson i have been watching closely is jeff quinney. He has a nice one plane swing, i've been on working turning back and turning threw. I had a terrible weight shift b4 with my old swing. The swing i've been working on is more of a rotation type swing. I find it easier for me to control my distances this way. I found the lawn mower drill helped me out in the swing, also letting the wrist natural hinge.

[Andaluzian]

shoulder down, over the top downswing sounds like a bit stack and tilt

[MPS67]

So far, I'm pretty sold on the 1-plan method, but the shoulder turning down almost makes me feel like I'm reverse-pivoting. Anybody else have that feeling?

Hardy advocates the following during the downswing:

1. At address, stack your upper body directly over your legs with a 35 to 45° spine tilt towards the ball. Absolutely No sideways spline tilt and no forward press of the shaft. A sideways tilt of the body where the hips are bumped towards the target, is to shallow the already steep and narrow two plane swing. The one plane swing, because it's flatter than an upright two plane swing, is already shallow. Tilting the body to the side at address with a one plane swing will cause the golfer to hit fat or skull it. 2. Initiate the downswing with a a combined shoulder and torso rotation while being careful to avoid any shoulder tilt within the bodies shoulder girth. Make sure the shoulder rotation is the dominating force as they'll need to catch up to the hips after the ball impact. 3. Keep the spine tilted between 35 and 45° though ball impact in order to promote spine rotation . And if anything, increase this angle as you strike through the ball. In other words, don't straighten up though impact as this promotes lateral spine tilting and not rotation. 4. Keep the arms close to the body. On the downswing, make sure the right elbow stays behind the right hip and doesn't lead the hands. This error will get the golfer stuck. Keep the hands close as you swing around to completion. Feel like you'll finish by shaking the hand of someone behind you. Don't swing down the target line. 5. During the downswing, don't shift or bump the hips towards the target as you would in a two plane swing. As long as you keep your spine tilted forward (35-45°) while rotating, you won't be guilty of swing over the top. I've tried both the OPS and TPS. The TPS is physically easier to accomplish but requires good timing and tempo in order to strike it straight. I've committed to the OPS as I've been able to generate a more repeatable strike with straighter shots. This method requires better flexibility, something I'll have to improve in order to become better. Hope this helps out. I own the Hardy 4 DVD set and think he does a decent job in going over the basic fundamental differences between the two swing methods.

[geezer]

I have had a one plane swing for as long as I've played golf (not that long, but it sounds sagely ). Recently I got advice to try and bring my swing plane more upright to bring more consistency... I haven't hit a shot I was happy with since, and I'm not kidding, I actually havent! Everything, and I mean everything, is fat, by about 2-3 inches, even on a tee!
Maybe Its just me not doing it right though...

[MPS67]

I have had a one plane swing for as long as I've played golf (not that long, but it sounds sagely

Are you saying that you've been hitting it fat since you've tried swinging with a more upright posture. Or are you saying that you've always hit it fat since you started golf using the OPS?