"Left Side" swing thoughts

[jambalaya]

did you read the book yet? after you read it a few times, you'll get a better understanding of how to use the shoulder. it's not really a swing thought, it's a conscious effort to physically control the swing with your left shoulder. i recommend giving it a few reads and visualize how you want to be swinging the club before you actually hit any balls. if you follow the instruction, you shouldn't be thinking about anything other than the shoulder when you swing the club. everything else, if done properly will fall into correct sequence.

He says in his book that the lower body must lead the upper body. But the lower body and upper body (shoulder turn) start at the same time. It is his contention that if you do his method right the initial shoulder movement gets everything going. He doesn't think you can separate the two movements.

I think it was worth the money even though I really cannot say I completely use his system. There is something holding me back from good execution of his method. I think it is my lack of attention span mainly. I don't know why exactly but my lower body gets stuck. I don't have this problem in other sports. I can throw a baseball with great form shifting the weight, planting the front foot and rotating into the throw. But get a stick in my hand and it is much harder for me at least. One thing I do know is that if I get into trouble shanking the ball, letting the left side take over seems to really help me with that.

[bunkerputt]

He says in his book that the lower body must lead the upper body. But the lower body and upper body (shoulder turn) start at the same time. It is his contention that if you do his method right the initial shoulder movement gets everything going. He doesn't think you can separate the two movements.

I read the book. I can say that I agree with most of it, and I would say it is worth $6 if you have the cash, but it seems like there is something strange going on. For one, he uses an extremely narrow stance: heels 9" apart with driver. For a guy 6'3", that seems like it's going to create some serious stability problems. It also inadvertently causes one to tend to overuse the shoulders simply because there is little room for lower body movement. I wonder how much this is influencing his writing and thinking.

Regarding the early unwinding of the left shoulder, and reasoning from first principles, here are some MUSTS in the golf swing: 1. The clubhead must approach the ball with a slightly descending blow with the hands leading the clubhead while the left wrist is flat to slightly supinated. This is the way golf was designed, end of story. 2. Any swing method that violates #1 is complete crap. In the backswing, the left arm is pinned against the left pectoral muscle. At the start of the backswing, the left shoulder can begin rotating extremely quickly, but only for a very short time. This is because the muscle is stretched which is creating a muscular contraction that is just begging to be released. As soon as the tension is gone, the muscle is relaxed and there is no force propelling the shoulders. This is why it is critical to begin the downswing with the lower body first. When the shoulders turn, the left arm begins gaining speed, but the connection to the left pectoral is still there until the shoulders begin slowing down. This causes the left arm to freewheel off the chest and begins the release process. By lower body, we really mean mid to lower abdominal muscles and lower back. It's completely possible to engage the lower body muscles independently from the upper body. I'm sitting at my desk and I can easily move my shoulders around without my hips moving at all. What makes this possible is the lack of torque or "slack" in my muscles. When there is a lot of torque in both the lower and upper body, any move of the lower body in the direction of the torque necessarily moves the upper body because there is no slack to allow for independent motion. But any move of the upper body doesn't move the lower body and releases the tension between the two creating a relaxed muscle. When people say "Start the swing with the lower body" they don't imply that the lower body is going to move independently of the upper body except in extremely flexible people where there is still slack at the top of the backswing. They really mean, "Engage the lower abdominals and back before unwinding the shoulders". The whole purpose of this is to prevent the early unwinding of the shoulders, the freewheeling of the left arm, and club casting violating #1 above. It seems what this guy is saying in his writing is to start the swing with the left shoulder, and continue moving the left shoulder through the shot. This certainly creates early speed, but the problem comes when the torque is released between the lower and upper body. It's not biomechanically possible to contract an unstretched muscle faster than a stretched one. This is just the way muscles work. What will happen if you start with the left shoulder and not with a lower body move is that the slack will be released, the club will be released early, and you'll hit it on the upswing. A lot has already been written on this topic.

[jambalaya]

Of course his contention is you cannot start the shoulder move he describes without the lower body reacting and moving at the same time and if I am reading correctly the lower body will move faster than the upper body and therefore lead. That is if you follow his principles. His whole premise if I am understanding correctly is that he found if you start with this shoulder move and left side control you are not going to have the situation you describe. The lower body will move.

[bunkerputt]

Of course his contention is you cannot start the shoulder move he describes without the lower body reacting and moving at the same time and if I am reading correctly the lower body will move faster than the upper body and therefore lead. That is if you follow his principles. His whole premise if I am understanding correctly is that he found if you start with this shoulder move and left side control you are not going to have the situation you describe. The lower body will move.

I guess I'll try it out. It seems like if thinking about the left shoulder disengages the upper back and mid/upper abdominals until after the transition, then good things would result. I'm still a bit shocked that someone's swing thought for performing this muscle sequence got put into an ebook called "The Master Key". For one, I can think about my left shoulder all day long and still stand up through impact. I also have to think of exactly what path I want my left shoulder to take through the shot. But even so, I can still lose my spine angle and keep my shoulder in the same spot just by standing up with my lower back and hunching with my upper back, which is how a lot of people look through impact.

[jambalaya]

I have my doubts that it will work for me ultimately. I have been coaching girls softball for years and played football, baseball and basketball competitively through high school. One thing that is pretty universal is that when someone is learning to throw a ball for the first time lower body movements are by no means natural. You have to teach someone to step and throw. This especially true for girls who have played no sports before. All of them just move the shoulder first and kind of flop the shoulder and arm basically pushing the ball rather than hurling it. Little or no lower body movement occurs. The shifting of the weight to get into position to throw a ball most efficiently has to be taught.

And what is it? In an overhand throw you begin to raise the arm while rotating the shoulder and at the same time you step forward with the lead leg, plant the lead leg, and then throw. In batting you raise the bat, take a short stride forward, shift the weight forward, then hurl the bat at the ball. Now what would be wrong if I lifted the golf club, shifted the weight onto my front foot, then swung the club? Seems to me once I know or feel my weight is planted on the front foot I ought to be able to take a decent wack at the ball. Everything after that should be comfortable and automatic.

[JackLee]

I guess I'll try it out. It seems like if thinking about the left shoulder disengages the upper back and mid/upper abdominals until after the transition, then good things would result. I'm still a bit shocked that someone's swing thought for performing this muscle sequence got put into an ebook called "The Master Key". For one, I can think about my left shoulder all day long and still stand up through impact. I also have to think of exactly what path I want my left shoulder to take through the shot. But even so, I can still lose my spine angle and keep my shoulder in the same spot just by standing up with my lower back and hunching with my upper back, which is how a lot of people look through impact.

If you are going to try it, you need to understand it first. Otherwise, you will be wasting your time. Yes, I can tell from your last two posts that you do not understand it. You have to stop making assumptions, and read and follow the instructions very carefully. It is all important, and some things are only said one time.

To correct some of your assumptions: There is no "early" unwinding of the shoulders. There is no loss of torque. The upper left arm should still be tight against the body at impact.The lower body movements are triggered subconsciously to lead the downswing. Since the lower body movements are subconscious, they are always perfect. But now I'm wasting my time. This is all in the book. Probably some will "get it" and some will not.