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Lie angle question? A tale of two clubs.
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I would think of it in terms of time. The time it takes to get the arm angle into a good position to deliver the club with proper shaft lean. Another component is rotation, but that is also a matter of timing. It relates to how the body stalls to give the golfer time to hit the ball. If you have to get 80+ degrees out of that right elbow in one third of a second versus 50 degrees in the same time then you have to steal time from somewhere. It is usually body rotation. That does not help with shaft lean. I agree in that amateurs tend to make the swing more complicated than pro golfers. -
I haven't been able to practice like I wanted and won't for the next week. 1. The weather sucks in Ohio this year. I have been mostly inside hitting foam balls. Just kind of my basic stuff. 2. I woke up last Saturday with a left side rib muscle on fire. If I turned or leaned a certain way it would spasm that almost buckled my knees. I have been taking a break to let that settle. I don't want to get a long term injury. I think I pinched a nerve or just aggravated a muscles. 3. I am going on a mini-vacation to Florida (screw you Ohio weather) with a friend, and rolling that into a work conference I have next week. I will be with out my clubs for a week. I will be back next in two Fridays to hit the ground running with some warmer temps and better weather in Ohio, hopefully. I would really like to get more out on the course and the range.
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Day 580 - 2026-05-04 Played eight holes. Sometimes golf kicks you in the nuts. 😉 -
I work with a lot of golfers who want more shaft lean at impact, who currently have AoAs that range from +2° to -2°, and who love to see the handle lower and more "in front of their trail thigh" from face-on at P6. And a lot of these golfers try to solve the issue by working on the downswing. They do something to drag the handle forward. Or they just leave their right thigh farther back so the same handle location "looks" farther forward. Or they move the ball back in their stance. Or they push themselves down into the ground to get the handle lower and increase (decrease?) their AoA (to be more negative). The real fix is often to get wider in the backswing. To do LESS in the backswing. To hinge less, fold the trail arm less, abduct the trail arm less. I had a case of this over the weekend. Before, the player had 110° of trail elbow bend, "lifted" his trail humerus only a few degrees, etc. The club traveled quite a bit around him, and he tended to "pick" the ball from the fairways. In the "after" swings below (which are mild exaggerations — this golfer does not need to end up at < 70° of elbow bend. These were slower backswings with "hit it as hard as you normally would" intent downswings), you can see that he bent his elbow about 70° instead of 110° and lifted his right arm an extra ~15° or more. You can't see how much less this moved his hands across his chest (right arm abduction), but it was also decreased. His hands stayed more "in front of" his right shoulder rather than traveling "beside" them so much. The two swings look like this: The change at P6, without talking about the downswing one little bit (outside of him telling me that he tends to pick the ball), is remarkable: Without 110° of elbow bend to get out (which he gets to 80°, a loss of 30°), the golfer actually loses slightly less elbow bend (70 - 50 = 20), but delivers 30° less elbow bend, lowering the handle and letting the elbow get "in front of" the rib cage… because it never got "behind" or "beside" the rib cage. If you look at this video showing the before/afters of P6, you'll note the handle location (both vertically and horizontally) and the shoulders (the ball is in the same place in these frames). This golfer's path was largely unaffected (still pretty straight into the ball, < 3° path and often < 1.5°), but his AoA jumped to -5° ± 2°. I've always said, and in talking with other instructors they agree and feel similarly, that we spend a lot of time working on the backswing. This is another example of why.
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By bkuehn1952 · Posted
We had a member of our senior club who developed a mental block on pulling the trigger. I played with him to see what the membership was talking about. I timed him a few times when he would get over the ball. 45 seconds. He knew he had a mental block and would chide himself, “Just hit it!” Once on the green he was okay and chipping was a bit better. It was painful to watch him struggle. Our “bandaid” was to put him in the last tournament tee time with two understanding players. We should have suggested to him to take a break from our tournaments. I agree with the idea that when a player realizes they have a problem, the answer is to go fix it and not return until they are able to play at an acceptable pace.
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