Playoff Hole Stroke Question

[albatross]

Little controversy at the course tonight. If a player has to give another player 3 strokes for an 18 hole match (I am a 13 and he was a 16) play event and it goes to a playoff, does the player receiving the strokes get another stroke on the first playoff hole if it happens to be one that he received it on the first time around?

It seems to me like if you get 3 strokes for 18 holes and then you need to play 1 more hole that you would just play it straight up. And by straight up I don't mean play a hole where a player got a stroke before and play it straight up, I mean play a neutral hole where neither player stroked during the stipulated round.

How do most places do this or is there a ruling on this?

Well I think I found the answer. I think they ruled correctly:

The USGA Handicap Manual recommends that strokes should be given on the playoff holes just as they were during the stipulated round. However, it is up to the tournament committee to determine and publish their decision in advance.

"a. Committee To Determine ProcedureRule 33-6 empowers the committee in charge of the competition to determine how and when a tie is decided. The decision should be published in advance.

The USGA recommends:

(i) Match Play
A match that ends all square should be played off hole by hole until one side wins a hole. The playoff should start on the hole where the match began. In a handicap match, handicap strokes should be allowed as in the stipulated round."
http://www.usga.org/...temid=14387#9-5





However, the course is not setup how the USGA recommends (See bold section at the end)
Section 17 ALLOCATION OF HANDICAP STROKES
Definitions

Within each section, all defined terms are in italics and are listed alphabetically in Section 2 - Definitions.

17-1. Discretion of Committee

The following procedure is recommended for allocating handicap strokes. The procedure is not mandatory because it has minimal effect on handicaps. Good judgment is of prime importance because no formula can cover conditions on every golf course. The Handicap Committee should review the course hole by hole, bearing in mind that the basic principle is to equalize the abilities of players at different handicap levels. Men's and women's stroke allocations will usually be different because their need to equalize holes will come on different holes. Common sense will dictate how closely the recommendations may be followed. A handicap stroke should be an equalizer and should be available on a hole where it most likely will be needed by the higher-handicapped player to obtain a half in singles or four-ball match play. Difficulty in making par on a hole is not an effective indicator of the need for a stroke.

In allocating the order of handicap strokes to the 18 holes of a golf course, consideration should be given to the likelihood of the strokes being equalizers rather than winning strokes. To accomplish this objective, the following guidelines are recommended:

a. Basis of Allocation

Allocate strokes based on play of the course from the tee markers used most often by the majority of club members.

Allocate the first stroke to the hole on the first nine on which the higher-handicapped player most needs a stroke as an equalizer and the second stroke to the hole on the second nine on which the higher-handicapped player most needs a stroke as an equalizer. Alternate in this manner for the full 18 holes.

Generally the longer the hole, the greater the need for the higher-handicapped player to receive a stroke.

b. Distribution of Strokes

(i) Odd Strokes/Even Strokes
The USGA recommends that the odd-numbered strokes be assigned to the holes on the first nine and the even-numbered strokes to the holes on the second nine.
This format equalizes, as nearly as possible, the distribution of handicap strokes over the entire 18 holes, and makes matches more equitable. In a case where the second nine is decidedly more difficult than the first nine, consideration should be given to allocating odd-numbered strokes to the second nine.

(ii) Importance of Low Strokes
The first handicap stroke should be allocated so that this stroke is most useful in matches between players of almost equal ability, such as matches involving players with a Course Handicap of 0 and 1, 10 and 11, or 29 and 30. In such matches, the first handicap stroke will be of the greatest importance as an equalizer to the player receiving the stroke.

In allocating the second handicap stroke, matches between players having a slightly greater difference in Course Handicap should be given the most consideration, such as matches involving players with a Course Handicap of 0 and 2, 10 and 12, or 29 and 31. This process should be continued until the first six strokes have been assigned.

Without substantially deviating from the above principles, allocating low-numbered strokes to holes near the end of each nine should be avoided so that players receiving strokes will have the opportunity to use these strokes before either nine or 18-hole matches are decided. Lower-numbered strokes should not be allocated to the first and second holes of a course in the event that a hole-by-hole playoff is necessary

So we went back to #1 which is rated the #1 handicap hole even though it isn't recommended by USGA.

The rule also states that this information should be posted which it was not. I had to run into the restaurant and try to find the golf manager who was also bartending, lol. And he made a very non-confident decision and said, "Yeah, i guess play number one and he gets a stroke."

So the correct ruling was made but sucks that it wasn't thought out (and posted) in advance and that the course isn't setup in the way that is recommended by the USGA. So if the "committee" hasn't made a decision on how it's to be played and it isn't posted, does the USGA "recommendation" become the decision? I'm assuming yes. It just sucks that it wasn't thought out and decided in advance.

[zeg]

I think it's one of those situations where the committee failed to complete its duty---there's no relief available.

I'd think that when it comes to it, the committee has to decide, and its decision is final. If that means the manager answers off the cuff, then I guess you're stuck. In any case, I seem to recall a decision that ruled that in the absence of a procedure from the committee for handling a tie, if the players agree to and execute a procedure, that outcome stands. (I believe the example was playing a full 18-hole playoff, then the loser complaining it should have been a hole-by-hole playoff or something.) In this case, if my memory is correct, I'd imagine that your agreeing to play by that procedure locks it in anyway.

[James_Black]

The first hole is the #1?
That's pretty rare in the first place. Wouldn't give me much confidence for my round......


I'd give the person a shot if it went to a playoff. If I didn't there'd be complaints if I won.

[Fourputt]

In such a case the committee should specify the playoff hole order which puts that handicap hole at least in the 3rd position. If the committee did not designate a playoff rotation then you could have gone to the first hole where your opponent did NOT get a stroke and start the playoff there. If the committee makes no specification then you aren't obligated to play any specific holes. On my home course, when we have a match that goes to extra holes, the players check with the starter and he tells them whether to hit the front or back 9 as being the most open at the time. But neither #1 or #10 is the lowest handicap hole for the side. On my home course the 7th is the #1 and the 16th is #2.

In a case like yours, the committee should designate a playoff hole rotation.

[albatross]

The first hole is the #1?

Yeah I know it's pretty rare. And the part that stinks is that it is in no way the most difficult hole on the course. Most members feel it should be the 6th or 7th rated hole. No one has been able to figure out why it's the #1.

I just wish there had been more clarity and we had started on a neutral hole. I realize it is what it is. Just hurts to make it through 3 rounds of the club championship and have it end that way with no one knowing how to handle the playoff.

[albatross]

I think it's one of those situations where the committee failed to complete its duty---there's no relief available.

This seems to make sense. It doesn't make me feel any better but it does make sense. :) I made par on the first playoff hole and he made bogey but because he got a stroke we moved on. So we moved to #2 where there were no strokes given and he sunk a 35 foot putt for birdie and won the match, so I did have a chance on a hole without strokes to get it done. It just hurt to go out in a playoff and par the #1 handicap hole and have it not be enough to get the job done.

[zeg]

Yeah I know it's pretty rare. And the part that stinks is that it is in no way the most difficult hole on the course. Most members feel it should be the 6th or 7th rated hole. No one has been able to figure out why it's the #1.

Yeah, it's actually a common misconception that the handicap rankings reflect the difficulty of the hole. They reflect the hole that's the most MORE difficult for a bogey golfer than for a scratch golfer, and length is a major piece of this (since driving distance is part of the definition of a scratch golfer). On my course, #1 and #9 are similar ~440 yard par 4s. #9 has a slight dogleg left and slightly uphill, so it is the number 1 handicap hole. #1 is the 3 handicap hole... Neither is difficult other than distance, so the fact that a scratch golfer is assumed to be able to reach 470 yards in 2 strokes versus 370 for a bogey golfer is really the only reason for these to be rated as they are.

Sorry for the frustrating outcome, but congratulations on finishing so well.