Cutting Shaft at Grip End Question

[dbwood]

Originally Posted by normdamarine

Project X shafts are designed to not be TIPPED but rather butt trimmed.

Yes they are.  The tipping instructions and recommendations are at TrueTemper. com.  Incidentally, they  recommend the finished length for a graphite shafted driver is 45 inches, (for what that's worth).

[normdamarine]

No, the shafts are not suppose to be tipped with the exception of making a wood shaft a 3 wood, 5 wood or 7 wood. If you tip a Project X shaft for a driver you are going to have a mess on your hands. As with all of their irons your order them for what you actually need, if I want a 3 iron I order the 3 iron shaft and butt trim to lenght. Yes, they are apart of TT but they are much different shafts than Dynamic Golds. Project X shafts are notorious for trimming on the butt end for lenght.

Originally Posted by dbwood

Yes they are.  The tipping instructions and recommendations are at TrueTemper. com.  Incidentally, they  recommend the finished length for a graphite shafted driver is 45 inches, (for what that's worth).

[dbwood]

Originally Posted by normdamarine

No, the shafts are not suppose to be tipped with the exception of making a wood shaft a 3 wood, 5 wood or 7 wood. If you tip a Project X shaft for a driver you are going to have a mess on your hands. As with all of their irons your order them for what you actually need, if I want a 3 iron I order the 3 iron shaft and butt trim to lenght. Yes, they are apart of TT but they are much different shafts than Dynamic Golds. Project X shafts are notorious for trimming on the butt end for lenght.

Yes, True Temper's Dynamic Golds, and True Temper's Project X shafts play differently from one another, both their iron shafts and their driver shafts.  But I'm talking about tipping the Project X graphite driver shaft.  You said that it can be tipped for a 3 wood but not for a driver or it will be a "mess".  I've never heard of Project X graphite driver shafts being especially difficult to work with.  Only their iron shafts are "butt trim only".

The usual reason for tipping a driver shaft to use in a 3 wood head is to counter the heavier weight of the 3 wood head.  Since a 3w head is heavier the shaft will play softer, (lower frequency or "cpm") than it would in the lighter driver head unless the shaft is trimmed from the tip, (usually to the manufactures specs or by using a frequency analyzer).  Just as it can be tipped to achieve a target cpm (flex) in a 3w head it can be tipped to achieve a desired cpm in a driver head.  For instance you may have a driver head that weighs 202 grams and want to use it with a 66 gram shaft cut to play at 43.5" and end up with a swing weight of >D-0.  To do that you would likely have to add 8 grams of weight or so and if you wanted to maintain a target cpm you would have to tip the shaft accordingly.

Another reason to tip a shaft would be to obtain a flex between two different offerings, (say between a 5.5 and 6.0).  Club makers do this all the time and Project X driver shafts, (not iron shafts) are no different from any others.

[k-troop]

Are the only relevant variables total weight, swingweight, and frequency?  If so, and you have a stock graphite driver shaft, is there a way to trim it (say between 1/2 and 1 inch) that will maintain the same swingweight and frequency (assuming the total weight on 1 inch is negligible)?

[dbwood]

Originally Posted by k-troop

Are the only relevant variables total weight, swingweight, and frequency?  If so, and you have a stock graphite driver shaft, is there a way to trim it (say between 1/2 and 1 inch) that will maintain the same swingweight and frequency (assuming the total weight on 1 inch is negligible)?

Sort of, and yes. Lets take that Project X driver shaft for example and you want to shorten the driver ½ inch. We know if we shorten the club ½ inch we will lose 3 swing weight points if we measure it on a swing weight scale, (not a mathematical absolute, but a good rule of thumb). That means we have to add 6 grams of weight to the club head to gain the swing weight back.

Driver heads weigh from 198-203 grams with the average being 202, 3 wood heads vary but seem to average about 208 grams. The folks at True Temper don't know what the head we would use weighs so they have to estimate it, and we will as well.

The instructions for tipping that shaft to increase it's stiffness to accommodate a heavier head are to tip ½ inch for a 3 wood head.

The difference between 208 and 202 is a very convenient 6 grams so we know if we pull the shaft, cut ½ inch from the tip and add 6 grams of weight to the head we should come to a ball-park result of the same flex we started with and the club will measure the same on a swing weight scale as before.

Now if we want to get gnats-ass perfect we need a freq analyzer and maybe a sacrificial shaft, but our first method should get us very close.

Will the club “feel” the same? Maybe, assuming your holding the club with your hands ½ inch closer to the club head, (around the same section of the grip as before). We added 6 grams to the head and that may make it feel heavier when you swing it (or not), you probably will not notice any difference in flex. Remember the goal was not to make it feel the same, it was to make it measure the same on a swing weight scale, and measure the same on a freq analyzer.

Swing weight numbers do not tell you how heavy the club will feel when you swing it and the swing weight system was not designed to do that, it was designed to help club makers “match” the feel of a set of irons that are made from similar components. I have a graphite shafted iron that measures D-4 and a steel shafted one that measures D-0, the D-4 iron swings far lighter, (to other people, not just me), because it's overall weight is 40 grams lighter.

I am NOT a professional club builder, or club fitter. I'm a hobbyist club maker and skilled tradesman with a keen interest in all things mechanical and technical.

[k-troop]

Originally Posted by dbwood

Sort of, and yes. Lets take that Project X driver .... skilled tradesman with a keen interest in all things mechanical and technical.

Thanks, and I appreciate your posts on both threads.  This is basically true with what happened with my clubs.  With my driver and 3-wood, I was gripping down a minimum of 1", up to maybe 2.5" when I was trying to hit a low shot or a controlled fade.  Now, I'm simply gripping down less:  at the end of the club for a big swing, and down 1/2" to 3/4" on a normal shot, and a max of 2" on a low or more controlled shot.  The feel of the club is the same--I just have less grip sticking out between my wrists.  It feels and looks more natural, and I feel more confident holding the club.  Honestly, that's probably the most important difference than any mechanics of the shaft resulting from a miniscule trim.