Hogan Impact/Address

[bunkerputt]

I took the time to get these images lined up to the pixel.  What's most impressive is how well he returns his hands to the address position.  Almost eerie if you just stare at his hands the whole time...

[bunkerputt]

Click on the image to pop.

[Harmonious]

Even more evidence of why he was such a great ball striker.  Thanks for doing this.

[shortstop20]

Words cannot describe...........

[iacas]

Originally Posted by Harmonious

Even more evidence of why he was such a great ball striker.  Thanks for doing this.

Please elaborate on this.

I don't think your club needs to be on the same plane at impact as it is at address, and good to great golfers throughout history have brought the handle in higher (never lower) than the shaft plane at setup. Nicklaus springs to mind - he brought the club in pretty high. And Hogan too, depending on a few things. I have plenty of video of Hogan with his impact shaft plane between shaft and elbow plane.

If you think about it, and the sole goal was to return the shaft to the same plane at setup as it was at address, you could just uncock your wrists more at setup. The cocking and uncocking of the wrists is power accumulator #2 in The Golfing Machine terms, and so it's relative... Let's say the ideal impact shaft plane for a player at a certain height with a 6-iron is 38 degrees from vertical. Well, so what if the player cocks his wrists more at setup and has it sitting at 45 degrees from vertical. He could return the club at 38 degrees every time but it won't match his impact plane.

Plus, I could make the case that you should return the hands higher through impact and thus that the impact shaft plane should be above the setup shaft plane because of clubhead droop. If your irons don't sit slightly toe-up at setup, the toe probably digs a little more than it should through impact. Hogan might have liked that, though, because toe droop helps send the ball right. Plus Hogan probably didn't have much shaft droop anyway, as he had really stiff, really heavy shafts.

I will say this: I think a lot of average golfers return the hands WAY too high. They get steep, they try like heck to send the path to the right (raising the handle helps with this, feeling like you're lowering the handle keeps the handle swinging to the left)...

But, generally speaking, I don't think "return the impact shaft plane to the setup shaft plane" is anything more than a measure of the uncocking of the left wrist, and so long as the impact shaft plane isn't too high, or your clubs aren't built improperly, players shouldn't worry about this too much .

P.S. Ben Hogan swung left with the best of 'em. As you might likely guess, swinging left and lowering the handle would be a bad thing for most average golfers, who already swing too far to the left (out to in) and slice the ball.

[Phil Ben Graeme]

Originally Posted by iacas

P.S. Ben Hogan swung left with the best of 'em. As you might likely guess, swinging left and lowering the handle would be a bad thing  for most average golfers, who already swing too far to the left (out to in) and slice the ball.

After I read your reply to the quote, I thought of this Video

[Phil Ben Graeme]

Originally Posted by Harmonious

Even more evidence of why he was such a great ball striker.  Thanks for doing this.

This Teacher is more qualified then me so I will let him explain it.To get point of, one of the reasons a great ball striker hogan is jump to 1:14 to the vid

[zeg]

I think that regardless of the general desirability of returning to the address position, the ability to do so is impressive and an indicator of the ability to have a repeatable swing.  If it's preferable to return precisely to a position a few inches offset from address (which I'm sure other pros can do), that's fine, but it doesn't make as visually impressive an animation.  :-)

[bunkerputt]

I agree with Erik that one shouldn't worry too much about matching up the two.  Golfers should have both a very consistent setup at address and a very consistent motion throughout the swing creating a consistent impact position as a byproduct.  Whether the impact position is the same in certain ways as the address position seems secondary in my view compared to the address position and motion being independently consistent.  Now, for me, it's easier if I set up to the ball with my shoulders open.  The reason is that my shoulders are pretty open at impact and if I set up square with the same amount of reach, I'd hit it on the toe every time simply because my left shoulder's distance to the ball has changed.

I don't know whether Hogan intended to return his hands at impact to the exact address position, but I haven't seen another golfer (maybe Nick Price) who does it as well.  It certainly makes it easy to check if your clubs have the right lie