Reverse Pivot and Sean Foley on weight distribution. Is this correct?

[motteler621]

I'm on my palm pre so I can't go too detailed and use quotes but I don't think Foley teaches a shift of hips or head off the ball in anyway on backswing. He teaches a centered backswing ala club on side of head and no hip shift. He does teach a different feeling on backswing in which you feel pressure/weight into ur back leg thigh and inner backfoot. You quoted it above in the golf digest part where he says load into right side but stay centered, which is exactly what I do. I'm saying it's possible to feel more load into right leg and stay centered, I use to feel slightly more pressure into my front leg on backswing but stayed centered. I don't think it's posible to have pressure 50 / 50 throughout backswing, some of it has to go slightly back while staying centered or slightly forward while staying centered. In his dvd he also points out that stephen ames use to keep centered but more weight on his front leg during backswing and then put the weight to back leg on downswing, he said he taught stephen to opposite it and put weight into back leg and then forward on downswing all while staying centered

[iacas]

Originally Posted by motteler621

I'm on my palm pre so I can't go too detailed and use quotes but I don't think Foley teaches a shift of hips or head off the ball in anyway on backswing. He teaches a centered backswing ala club on side of head and no hip shift.

In other words, the things others were saying he taught that you said "no" to. At least that's how it seemed. Be honest now... the words used were "Centered, then forward." Lots of proof that's what he's teaching, and you just said it!

Don't get too hung up on "feel versus real" and the use of the word "load." He doesn't teach the right leg straightening quite as much, so that's why a lot of players will feel a little "loading," but that's about it. It's still centered.

Originally Posted by motteler621

I don't think it's posible to have pressure 50 / 50 throughout backswing, some of it has to go slightly back while staying centered or slightly forward while staying centered.

Weight can go slightly back or slightly forward, but can't stay 50/50? Unless you're defining this to some small number, like 49.8% and 50.2%, clearly if the weight can go back or forward it's probably possible to stay pretty 50/50 too.

And feel again ain't real. Some players have to feel more pressure right. Some have to feel 90% pressure left just to get them to stay relatively centered and not go 90% back.

Originally Posted by motteler621

In his dvd he also points out that stephen ames use to keep centered but more weight on his front leg during backswing and then put the weight to back leg on downswing, he said he taught stephen to opposite it and put weight into back leg and then forward on downswing all while staying centered

I watched that part just now. Feel ain't real. He said that Stephen used to set up 70/30 (forward/back), so now that he's set up better he feels more pressure in his right foot compared to his previous swing . Feel is informed by what we used to do.

The "back up" move is what he said amateurs did. Which is admittedly confusing since he says that causes back pain and that Stephen was having back pain too... ? :-P Hey, he's not the clearest communicator. Anyway, Stephen went from 70/30 to 50/50 and stays centered.

"There's really no reason the head should ever move off the golf ball" Foley says. He calls it a "fundamental."

[motteler621]

Originally Posted by iacas

In other words, the things others were saying he taught that you said "no" to. At least that's how it seemed. Be honest now... the words used were "Centered, then forward." Lots of proof that's what he's teaching, and you just said it!

Don't get too hung up on "feel versus real" and the use of the word "load." He doesn't teach the right leg straightening quite as much, so that's why a lot of players will feel a little "loading," but that's about it. It's still centered.

Weight can go slightly back or slightly forward, but can't stay 50/50? Unless you're defining this to some small number, like 49.8% and 50.2%, clearly if the weight can go back or forward it's probably possible to stay pretty 50/50 too.

And feel again ain't real. Some players have to feel more pressure right. Some have to feel 90% pressure left just to get them to stay relatively centered and not go 90% back.

I watched that part just now. Feel ain't real. He said that Stephen used to set up 70/30 (forward/back), so now that he's set up better he feels more pressure in his right foot compared to his previous swing. Feel is informed by what we used to do.

The "back up" move is what he said amateurs did. Which is admittedly confusing since he says that causes back pain and that Stephen was having back pain too... ? :-P Hey, he's not the clearest communicator. Anyway, Stephen went from 70/30 to 50/50 and stays centered.

"There's really no reason the head should ever move off the golf ball" Foley says. He calls it a "fundamental."

I was referring to that solid contact video he had in which he teaches more weight on front at address, thats what I said no to, stays that way at top and then goes more forward on downswing. Im not in any way saying Foley doesnt teach a centered backswing, He does teach a centered backswing. Im saying he doesnt teach his players the weight feelings in that youtube video.

Let me ask you this, do you think by loading right leg and putting more pressure into inner back leg on backswing that you cant stay centered?

[iacas]

Originally Posted by motteler621

I was referring to that solid contact video he had in which he teaches more weight on front at address, thats what I said no to, stays that way at top and then goes more forward on downswing. Im not in any way saying Foley doesnt teach a centered backswing, He does teach a centered backswing. Im saying he doesnt teach his players the weight feelings in that youtube video.

Let me ask you this, do you think by loading right leg and putting more pressure into inner back leg on backswing that you cant stay centered?

Aaron, I'm getting off the crazy train now. You said "no he doesn't" to this: "To do what? To stay centered? Sure he does." Now you seem to be making it about something else.

In that video Sean says 55/45. That's what he teaches his PGA Tour players and what he says in his DVD, too. He teaches "55/45 (slightly left), stay left, go farther left." That's exactly what he teaches. You seem to be making a case out of the word "load," and I've already spoken to that - as has Sean O'Hair. Centered, but "loading..." whatever that means. And to answer the earlier questions again, no, it's not a reverse pivot (thread title).

To answer your question, you can and can't. Feel isn't real and it will vary by players. There's no real definition for "loading right leg" nor is there one unique way that every individual feels "pressure." For someone that has been too far left too early in the swing the amount of "pressure" or "loading" they'll feel will be different - for the same exact position - as someone who has slid off the ball.

[motteler621]

Originally Posted by iacas

Aaron, I'm getting off the crazy train now. You said "no he doesn't" to this: "To do what? To stay centered? Sure he does." Now you seem to be making it about something else.

In that video Sean says 55/45. That's what he teaches his PGA Tour players and what he says in his DVD, too. He teaches "55/45 (slightly left), stay left, go farther left." That's exactly what he teaches. You seem to be making a case out of the word "load," and I've already spoken to that - as has Sean O'Hair. Centered, but "loading..." whatever that means. And to answer the earlier questions again, no, it's not a reverse pivot (thread title).

To answer your question, you can and can't. Feel isn't real and it will vary by players. There's no real definition for "loading right leg" nor is there one unique way that every individual feels "pressure." For someone that has been too far left too early in the swing the amount of "pressure" or "loading" they'll feel will be different - for the same exact position - as someone who has slid off the ball.

This thread was specifically about that video in which he talks about the weight distribution. Thats what the OP was talking about, the weight distribution, not the centered part. We all know Foley teaches a centered swing. I must of misunderstood Phil when he said "To do what? stay centered? sure he does". I never said anything about centered in this thread, only weight distribution, maybe thats why I misunderstood him.

Really tho, Im not here to debate with whats right and wrong. Different things work for different people and I know what works with me.

[Phil McGleno]

Originally Posted by motteler621

This thread was specifically about that video in which he talks about the weight distribution. Thats what the OP was talking about, the weight distribution, not the centered part. We all know Foley teaches a centered swing. I must of misunderstood Phil when he said "To do what? stay centered? sure he does". I never said anything about centered in this thread, only weight distribution, maybe thats why I misunderstood him.

Really tho, Im not here to debate with whats right and wrong. Different things work for different people and I know what works with me.

You must have misunderstood me? C'mon kid... You quoted "stay centered? sure he does" and replied "no he doesn't." I'm glad you know what works for you... maybe one of these days you'll break 80.

Foley teaches "set left stay left more left" to his Tour players. And staying centered - that's the "stay" part.

[motteler621]

Originally Posted by Phil McGleno

You must have misunderstood me? C'mon kid... You quoted "stay centered? sure he does" and replied "no he doesn't." I'm glad you know what works for you... maybe one of these days you'll break 80.

Foley teaches "set left stay left more left" to his Tour players. And staying centered - that's the "stay" part.

Most people (specifically SnT people) are under the impression that centered means you have to keep most of your weight forward like 55/45 throughout the swing, I was under the impression by "centered" you meant the weight. Check out the SnT thread on golfwrx, alot of people associate staying centered with most weight forward.

Hey a 9 handicap is pretty good for playing since april of 2010.

[Zeph]

Originally Posted by motteler621

Most people (specifically SnT people) are under the impression that centered means you have to keep most of your weight forward like 55/45 throughout the swing, I was under the impression by "centered" you meant the weight. Check out the SnT thread on golfwrx, alot of people associate staying centered with most weight forward.

Centered refers to the upper and lower body, which is related to the weight. Head or hips moving forward or back will move weight forward or back. You can of course change the weight distribution by very small changes in knee flex. Which means you can change the weight distribution while keeping the hips and upper body centered.

And it's not to keep the weight 55/45 throughout the swing, only up to the top of the backswing. From the top, it's hips shifting forward and 90% forward at impact.

I don't see what we are discussing anymore.

[motteler621]

Originally Posted by Zeph

Centered refers to the upper and lower body, which is related to the weight. Head or hips moving forward or back will move weight forward or back. You can of course change the weight distribution by very small changes in knee flex. Which means you can change the weight distribution while keeping the hips and upper body centered.

And it's not to keep the weight 55/45 throughout the swing, only up to the top of the backswing. From the top, it's hips shifting forward and 90% forward at impact.

I don't see what we are discussing anymore.

centered refers mainly to the head and hips, if those stay centered through backswing nothing else is going to shift and yes the weight moves forward through downswing to like 90 percent. I still believe Foley does things a little different in his weight distribution than SnT and that little golf digest video tip for amateurs stuggling with contact. Iacas posted the golf digest quote from last issue

Quote from Golf Digest, May 2011, Page 104: "1. Keeping it Together: He now has a good connection between his arms and body. His left arm is in closer, but not super tight, and the clubhead is a little more in line with his hands. From here, he'll just turn to the top. He's loading into his right side but staying pretty centered ."

Its in print right there and i knew he taught this before this interview came out. Im not reading into anything, notice how he says but staying centered, hes not shifting off the ball when he loads his right side but staying centered. Theres no way to read into this, if someone tells you to load your right side, your going to keep a little knee flex and put pressure/load into that side but stay centered. i do this with every swing I make with ease, I have a very centered swing.

Im done with this conversation so theres no reason for anyone else to debate me from the SnT group. Thats what I believe Foleys teaches and its fine if you dont agree

[iacas]

Originally Posted by motteler621

Im done with this conversation so theres no reason for anyone else to debate me from the SnT group. Thats what I believe Foleys teaches and its fine if you dont agree

I think you're done because you feel you've gotten to the point where you can't really tell us what you're even trying to say and you don't want to keep trying to defend a word you can't really define. We've told people to "load" their right side too. Troy Matteson doesn't want to do it because he likes the bigger draw pattern, but if he wanted to hit it straight, he could feel more "loading into his right side. Instead his hips go forwards in the backswing. Or maybe you're talking about muscular load - the knee is more bent so the muscles are more engaged. Or torsional load - the hips haven't turned as much, so there's more torsional load? Mike Bennett and Andy Plummer don't teach players to lock out or fully straighten their right knee either. Look at the guy many use as their "model" - Charlie's right knee isn't very straight. Neither was Baddeley's.

[motteler621]

Originally Posted by iacas

I think you're done because you feel you've gotten to the point where you can't really tell us what you're even trying to say and you don't want to keep trying to defend a word you can't really define. We've told people to "load" their right side too. Troy Matteson doesn't want to do it because he likes the bigger draw pattern, but if he wanted to hit it straight, he could feel more "loading into his right side. Instead his hips go forwards in the backswing. Or maybe you're talking about muscular load - the knee is more bent so the muscles are more engaged. Or torsional load - the hips haven't turned as much, so there's more torsional load? Mike Bennett and Andy Plummer don't teach players to lock out or fully straighten their right knee either. Look at the guy many use as their "model" - Charlie's right knee isn't very straight. Neither was Baddeley's.

i will say this and Im done because you guys will debate till the moon comes up and I dont want to waste my time with debating. Loading into the right and staying centered will create pressure on mainly the inner back thigh and buttucks as well and inner right foot and you will have a little back knee flex. These are pressure feelings that Foleys goes over many times in his teachings.

btw:my stock shot on all my shots is a draw,

[Phil McGleno]

Originally Posted by motteler621

i will say this and Im done because you guys will debate till the moon comes up and I dont want to waste my time with debating. Loading into the right and staying centered will create pressure on mainly the inner back thigh and buttucks as well and inner right foot and you will have a little back knee flex. These are pressure feelings that Foleys goes over many times in his teachings.

btw:my stock shot on all my shots is a draw,

You were done before, too. What's wrong with debate and discussion? You keep using words you can't define, like "loading," as if that somehow proves something.

You responded to my comment about staying centered by saying Foley doesn't teach that. Now it's about "loading" which I don't think you've got a clue about. And you misspelled buttocks.

Loading into the right side will create pressure? That's almost a tautology. Creating pressure is loading into the right side, which creates pressure, which is loading, which creates pressure, which is loading.

You've yet to actually state your case. But okay, I get it. You're done. The second time. This time you mean it! Cheers kiddo.

[iacas]

Settle down boys. Thanks.

[chris_284]

I want to re-hash this topic to ask a question about the Driver.

Does this apply to all clubs in your bag? I was getting the forward weight shift down yesterday at the course, and it was causing some awful driver swings. On two occasions I made divots with my driver about a foot ahead of where it was teed up after duffing the ball.

[GolfBear]

I'm far from an expert on swing theory but I used to be a competitive athlete so I know a bit about athleticism.   It seems to me that in regards to a golf swing a "balanced" approach would be a lot easier to repeat than one that requires a movement of all of your weight from one side of the body to another.    That's not to say that a full weight change swing can't work, it just requires exponentially more timing to pull off.  Since our margin of error in a golf swing is very small it would seem to me that a balances approach would make more sense.

My swing is self taught and one of the things I struggle with is consistency.   I've never really paid enough attention to my base, I'm always worried about where my arms and hands are.   This year I've started to focus on my legs and hips and it's making a HUGE difference.