Can the arm plane be too flat in a S&T backswing?

[LongballGer]

...provided you have a steep shoulder turn?

It seems that Wi and Bennett lift their arms on their driver swings.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by LongballGer

...provided you have a steep shoulder turn?

It seems that Wi and Bennett lift their arms on their driver swings.

Not intentionally. They both tend to turn a little bit too flat. For example, Mike first:

Note that his shoulder turn is flatter. The hands are in a decent (not "perfect" per the model but certainly not a bad place) but the shoulder turn is, what, 14˚ too flat or thereabouts?

Charlie:

Same thing. But again, it's something Charlie works on, as you can see here:

Better hip and shoulder slants, left arm on shoulder plane, and good to go.

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I'm confused by the title and the first sentence. The shoulders are too flat so the arms get too steep. You seem to be implying the opposite... Can you clarify?

[LongballGer]

Thanks for clearing that up.

Quote:

I'm confused by the title and the first sentence. The shoulders are too flat so the arms get too steep. You seem to be implying the opposite... Can you clarify?

No, I agree with you there. I was a little bit confused because Charlie is supposed to be the model S&T; swing. What I was implying is that if there was no lifiting of the arms his Driver swing would look exactly like this at the top (arm plane actually under the shoulder plane):

[iacas]

Originally Posted by LongballGer

Thanks for clearing that up.

No, I agree with you there. I was a little bit confused because Charlie is supposed to be the model S&T; swing. What I was implying is that if there was no lifiting of the arms his Driver swing would look exactly like this at the top (arm plane actually under the shoulder plane):

He's not really the model for everything. ONE SWING he made with a short iron is kind of "the model" but to us, to instructors, there really isn't a "model" - not even that "one swing" (the blue down the line one with the 9I/wedge).

Kuchar is well under plane. The "model" (again I hate using that word, because realistically and truthfully we have some fairly wide ranges, and the "model" might simply be the middle of the ranges) has the shoulders matching the arms. Kuchar's arms ARE too flat - he's below a "one plane" swing. The S&T; "model" is simply a left arm that matches the shoulder tilt.

P.S. You can see how Kuchar lets his right elbow orbit behind or even with his shirt seam on the right side of his chest. This lets him load the left arm farther across his chest and with less upward dimension than "pure S&T;" would say. "Pure S&T;" would have the right elbow staying a little more in front of the shirt seam, providing a little more upward dimension, so the left arm can get "up" to match the shoulder tilts.