Unplayable lie and options with provisional?

[Topper]

One of my playing partners hit an approach shot into a dry, rocky drainage ditch.  Of course he pulled it out dropped it next to the ditch (closer to the hole), added a penalty stroke, and kept playing.  I knew it wasn't the correct way to play (see below) it but it got me thinking.....

Although we found his ball in the drainage ditch, dropping 2 club lengths (anywhere) didn't put him in a playable position.  This would leave only two other options for an unplayable lie....play a provisional or drop any distance further from the hole along the line from the pin through the ball.  The latter option would put him in the rough on the other side of the ditch with a shot through some scraggly trees lining the ditch.  Tough but playable.  Assuming he had hit a provisional (in case his ball was lost), he wouldn't be obligated to continue with the provisional once the first ball was found.  He could choose to drop along the line between his ball and pin if he wanted and not put the provisional in play.

Let's take this one step further.  Even though he left the location from where he hit his original approach shot, could he still go back to that location and hit a provisional even if he might not be able to find the exact spot where he originally played his approach?  I believe that this is allowed.

This is more for my benefit since most people don't like being "lectured" by the "annoying rules guy" during a practice round not associated with money, a tournament, or handicap.  I just want to make sure I understand the rules correctly.

[zeg]

I think you have made a couple errors in your analysis.  I'll try to correct them (to the best of my ability)...

First, a drainage ditch would  be a water hazard, even when empty.  There's no "unplayable lie" from a water hazard.  So the two club lengths is irrelevant, as is anything to do with the unplayable lie.  If he doesn't want to (or can't) play it as it lies, his point of reference is where it crossed the hazard line, not where it lay.  He gets a drop either the line between the hole and that point (behind the hazard) or back at the last place he made a stroke.  If it is a lateral water hazard (either as marked, or if unmarked, by meeting the definition) then he could take two club lengths from that point of reference as well.

Also, a "provisional" is a very specific thing: it is the ball you put provisionally in play in case you suspect the ball is lost or OB (outside of a hazard).  If you don't do it immediately, there's no "going back to play a provisional."  You can always go back to put a ball in play, but it would *immediately* be in play.

And, yes, in that case you do your honest best to find the correct spot.

Finally, had he played a provisional before looking for his ball, things get a little tricky.  Unless it was reasonable to think the ball was lost somewhere other than in that ditch, he was not entitled to a provisional.  Had he played one, that would have been the ball in play.  You're only entitled to a provisional when there's a reasonable belief the ball may be lost outside a water hazard.  Assuming that this was possible, say there was heavy rough and OB in the same area where his ball went, once he found his ball in bounds, playing the provisional is no longer an option.  The *only* way you can make a provisional the ball in play is to make another stroke at it without finding the first one or by finding your original ball OB.

Hope that's helpful and correct.  If not, I'm sure someone will correct my errors!

[Topper]

This was more complicated than I thought but I think I understand.

The ditch was dry but I'm sure that it contains runoff in the spring and following heavy rains so it's a water hazard.  The bottom was all rock which I'm also sure was intended as rip rap to prevent erosion.  So out of curiosity, I checked one of my old scorecards and it states the following:

"All ditches are water hazards.  Play or 1 stroke penalty" (That seems pretty clear )

I see now that his only real option was to play from behind the ditch on a line between where it rolled into the ditch and the pin.  That would have been a real tough play and could easily have resulted in a lot more strokes on that hole compared with a relatively easy chip onto the green from the "good" side of the ditch.  It's also clear that failing to follow the rules can have a significant impact on scores.

One more question on the provisional.  Let's assume that my partner is concerned the the ball could be lost outside the ditch in some rough.  He plays a provisional and tops it so it only goes 50' and there's another 100+ yards to the area where the first ball may be lost.  Can he continue to hit the provisional until he gets to the area where he can confirm that his first ball is lost or in play?  My understanding is yes but it's another issue that I want to be sure of because this happens to me periodically.

[zeg]

Yes, you can make as many strokes as necessary on your provisional until it reaches the area your original is likely to lie, at which point it becomes in play if you make further strokes.

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by Topper

This was more complicated than I thought but I think I understand.

The ditch was dry but I'm sure that it contains runoff in the spring and following heavy rains so it's a water hazard.  The bottom was all rock which I'm also sure was intended as rip rap to prevent erosion.  So out of curiosity, I checked one of my old scorecards and it states the following:

"All ditches are water hazards.  Play or 1 stroke penalty" (That seems pretty clear )

I see now that his only real option was to play from behind the ditch on a line between where it rolled into the ditch and the pin.  That would have been a real tough play and could easily have resulted in a lot more strokes on that hole compared with a relatively easy chip onto the green from the "good" side of the ditch.  It's also clear that failing to follow the rules can have a significant impact on scores.

One more question on the provisional.  Let's assume that my partner is concerned the the ball could be lost outside the ditch in some rough.  He plays a provisional and tops it so it only goes 50' and there's another 100+ yards to the area where the first ball may be lost.  Can he continue to hit the provisional until he gets to the area where he can confirm that his first ball is lost or in play?  My understanding is yes but it's another issue that I want to be sure of because this happens to me periodically.

A lot also depends on the orentation of the ditch.  If it ran along the side of the hole, then it should possibly have been treated as a later water hazard, which would have given the player the addition of option 'c' under Rule 26-1.  It can be difficult to be "right" on a course which is poorly or improperly marked.  You may simply have to learn the rule, then decide within your group what procedure is equitable for the situation.  My home course is generally well marked except in the winter when the stakes all go into storage until spring.  Many of our hazards will be marked as yellow (water hazard) for the portion which lies approximately between the tee and hole, but may change toward the sides of the fairway to red (lateral water hazard) to allow for the necessary extra option of dropping 2 clublenths from the margin where the ball crossed in.  If a water hazard near the side of the hole or fairway is situated such that Option 'b' is not feasible and the only possible course is to return to the place where the last stroke was played (stroke and distance), then it should probably be treated as a lateral water hazard.