Spine Tilt Left end of back swing. Help

[HerdGolf]

I set up to ball as I should.  Slight tilt right with my head a bit behind the ball.  As i turn back I keep the head pretty still and turn my left shoulder behind the ball.  I find that if I restrict my hip turn at the end of back-swing my sine actually goes from slight right to tilting back left like a reverse pivot.  Stragne looking on camera.  My left shoulder is behind the ball but I can see spine tilting slightly left.  If I allow my hips to rotate more on the back swing i don't tilt as much.  Could someone give me advice? Does what I said make sense?  I'm pretty flexible so my shoulders turn about 100deg with restricted hips.

[HerdGolf]

OK after doing some video watching and looking in a mirror I think I'm dropping the left shoulder at the top instead of tilting left.  I found this post which was helpful

http://thesandtrap.com/t/33450/help-dropping-left-shoulder-during-backswing

[uttexas]

[URL=http://thesandtrap.com/image/id/168840/width/1000/height/800][IMG]http://thesandtrap.com/image/id/168840/width/1000/height/500[/IMG][/URL] [URL=http://thesandtrap.com/image/id/168842/width/1000/height/800][IMG]http://thesandtrap.com/image/id/168842/width/1000/height/500[/IMG][/URL] [URL=http://thesandtrap.com/image/id/168845/width/1000/height/800][IMG]http://thesandtrap.com/image/id/168845/width/1000/height/500[/IMG][/URL] The left shoulder rotates down and the spine extends in the backswing. So at the top of the backswing, the shoulders are tilted toward the ball. If you are able to extend your spine well, it might look like your spine is extended toward the target. If you restrict hip turn, the shoulders won't continue to rotate down as much, and will likely start rotating more level with the ground, thus at the top, the shoulders won't be angled (tilted) toward the ball as much (off plane)

[HerdGolf]

I've noticed that you illustrated the stack and tilt swing.  Would your comment be the same for the traditional modern swing and not S&T;?

[uttexas]

Yes--applies to all swings; the S&T; swing (I would argue) is the traditional swing (Snead/Hogan). The late 80s and 90s are where we saw the big weight shift and arms off body (hands in front of chest) fads, with things now returning to more traditional. See Hogan and Snead--- the text book traditional swings. [URL=http://thesandtrap.com/image/id/168851/width/1000/height/800][IMG]http://thesandtrap.com/image/id/168851/width/1000/height/500[/IMG][/URL] [URL=http://thesandtrap.com/image/id/168852/width/1000/height/800][IMG]http://thesandtrap.com/image/id/168852/width/1000/height/500[/IMG][/URL] [URL=http://thesandtrap.com/image/id/168853/width/1000/height/800][IMG]http://thesandtrap.com/image/id/168853/width/1000/height/500[/IMG][/URL] [URL=http://thesandtrap.com/image/id/168854/width/1000/height/800][IMG]http://thesandtrap.com/image/id/168854/width/1000/height/500[/IMG][/URL]

[uttexas]

As far as the "modern 90's" traditional/classic swing let's look at Ernie Els You can see that his upper swing center has shifted slightly to the rear foot, but spine is extended toward target and shoulders tilted (angled) to ball at the top [URL=http://thesandtrap.com/image/id/168862/width/1000/height/800][IMG]http://thesandtrap.com/image/id/168862/width/1000/height/500[/IMG][/URL] [URL=http://thesandtrap.com/image/id/168863/width/1000/height/800][IMG]http://thesandtrap.com/image/id/168863/width/1000/height/500[/IMG][/URL]

[HerdGolf]

What i noticed about my backswing vs big easy is his left shoulder is even with or slightly higher in frame 3 vs 2.  Where my left shoulder was lower or closer to the ball if I was comparing.  I will try some of the ideas from the previous thread.  The  "standing up" drill

[HerdGolf]

update.  I tried some of the stand up drills.  I can absolutely smash my driver with this since it actually makes me stand up and sweep the ball.  Not so good for the irons.  I can barely make a divot with my sand wedge.  Today at the range I tried to extend way back on the backswing instead of tilting down or standing up.  This seemed to work well.  It didn't change the spine angle and allow for nice downward blow with irons.  Good with driver as well.  It also helps slow my transition tempo.  I tend to have a very fast move with the arms down to start the backswing. Is a wide swing arc good with lower irons as well as driver?