So where is the "Tiger Choked" thread?

[satch_ip]

After watching the Masters, I figured someone would come out and say it. But lo and behold there was no choke post. After the US Open last year a some (you know who you are EB) kept on and on about how Phil choked. Well what about Tiger? Did he choke?

He, if pas history is a guide, had a better chance to win than did Phil that fatefull Sunday. No one, however, is saying it though.

This is not a Tiger vs Phil thread. Phil can't carry Tiger's shoes. But it is kinda funny the different press they get.

OK fire away!!

[iacas]

After watching the Masters, I figured someone would come out and say it. But lo and behold there was no choke post. After the US Open last year a some (you know who you are EB) kept on and on about how Phil choked. Well what about Tiger? Did he choke?

I triple dog dare you to find the posts where I "kept on and on" about how Phil choked.

Tiger didn't choke. Heck, he parred the last four holes on a course where (this year) par was a good score. In his words, he lost the tournament on 17 and 18 on Thursday and Saturday, not on Sunday.

He, if pas history is a guide, had a better chance to win than did Phil that fatefull Sunday. No one, however, is saying it though.

Huh? Phil came to 18 with a lead. Tiger was two back. Tiger was never in the lead all week - Phil was quite frequently at Winged Foot, and led all day (right?) on Sunday until 18.

This is not a Tiger vs Phil thread. Phil can't carry Tiger's shoes. But it is kinda funny the different press they get.

Completely different situations. Give Tiger a one-shot lead on 18 and have him make double and the situation is the same.

I've already claimed Tiger choked once this year. At the match play against Nick O'Hern of all people. Do you listen to the podcasts?

[GoingfortheGreen]

After watching the Masters, I figured someone would come out and say it. But lo and behold there was no choke post. After the US Open last year a some (you know who you are EB) kept on and on about how Phil choked. Well what about Tiger? Did he choke?

Actually I saw some articles that said "this is the first time that Tiger had the lead in a major and wasn't able to hold it". That's pretty funny, because if I recall he had the lead on the second hole on Sunday, which lasted all of two minutes before someone else started leading....

Not sure how you can call that "leading a major"

[asianpsuation]

couldnt disagree more, the situations that tiger and phil found themselves in were completely different. phil had the outright lead from friday until the last hole, and he truly choked it away. he sliced his drive, then proceeded to hit several of the dumbest shots ive ever seen. tiger never lost the tournament, he was always threatening, but never had a firm grasp on the lead. his bogey-bogey finishes on thurs. and sat. are what cost him the masters, he certainly didn't choke this one away, though he was clearly not on his A or even B game. zach johnson rightfully won, nobody gave him the tournament..

[Fisherdude]

I'm continually amazed that nobody in the world ever talks about where Phil really lost the Open. And, no, it wasn't on the 18th when he sliced his drive onto the hospitality tent. And it wasn't the next shot where he tried to get around the tree.

It was a hole or two prior (I can't remember which one) where he tried to hit fairway wood out of 8" US Open rough, and advanced it precisely one yard. And then, in a coma, asks Bones: "What's the yardage?". Well, it's one yard less than it was 10 seconds ago, you idiot. If he doesn't try fairway wood out of 8" rough, which is a completely brain-dead attempt that even Tiger wouldn't try, then he's got another shot cushion on 18, and even if he had sliced his tee shot onto the tent, he wouldn't have felt the pressure to try to go for the green on his approach.

The fairway wood was stupid, and then he choked.

Tiger didn't choke on Sunday, he simply didn't play as well as he's capable of playing, which happens to everybody. Some of us, more frequently than others! He was right about losing the tournament on Thursday and Friday with two bogey-bogey finishes. Four shots is a big nut in a major. And, he's still only human.

I'm totally impressed with how Zach played. He was rock solid. And, I'm willing to go out on a limb and say I don't think he's a one shot wonder. I think he'll be around for a while. He's a stick.

[iacas]

I'm continually amazed that nobody in the world ever talks about where Phil really lost the Open. And, no, it wasn't on the 18th when he sliced his drive onto the hospitality tent. And it wasn't the next shot where he tried to get around the tree.

He had the lead going to the 18th hole. Thus, that's exactly when he "lost" the tournament.

It was a hole or two prior (I can't remember which one) where he tried to hit fairway wood out of 8" US Open rough, and advanced it precisely one yard.

I think it was well back of that, at least on 14 or even earlier. And he never lost the lead. He didn't "lose" the tournament there - every pro has swings they'd like back earlier in every tournament.

Let's get back to Tiger, though. The OP doesn't want this to turn into a Phil thread.

[ragontona]

There won't be a "Tiger Choked" thread for this tournament because Tiger didn't choke. Failing to birdie 17 & 18 at Augusta trying to catch the leader in the clubhouse is not choking.

Had Tiger had a two-stroke lead, then proceeded to bogey 17 & 18 to put himself into a playoff, then lost the playoff, that'd be a choke.

Tiger came up short. That's all. It happens.

[Cleveland Gunmetal]

I guess you just created the thread.... I have to be honest. I was expecting a thread like this and I was pleasantly surprised when I didn't find it. C'mon... he didn't choke. He played solid golf. Why do people say that? He lost the tournament. Someone played better than him, it can happen. Doesn't usually but can... For once someone else ahead of him was posting good numbers and forced Tigers hand (see second shot on #15). Tiger's the one who usually starts off hot and forces other players to hit shots they are not capable of and thus crumble. A complete reversal of what is supposed to happen. It didn't happen this time and major congrats to Zach Johnson. He played so great. Hell, he tied the low round of the tournament so how did Tiger choke? Actually congrats to Sabbatini and Goosen too... they were, what, 3 back of Woods and 4 of Appleby (not for long though) to start the day and had made up all of the ground after the front 9. Tigers used to others laying down for him on Sunday and for once it didn't happen. Zach Johnson has a lot of fire, we saw this at the Ryder Cup last year too.

Phil double bogeyed the 18th hole to lose by one... to me that's a lot different than what happened on Sunday. but I still dont' think Phil deserved the lashing he had to take after that. Tiger just didn't have enough and Zach played too well. Heck, Tiger eagled 13 and made par on the last 4 holes. We get so accustomed to seeing Tiger pull off miraculous shots to win golf tournaments, when he doesn't people talk about him choking.

My fantasy golf league was all about Tiger choking on the board today.... c'mon

[Cleveland Gunmetal]

Correction... I think low round of the tournament was a 68 but you get my point.

[jorgesgolf]

I think what happened was that Tiger had the tables turned on him. As they noted in the telecast, Tiger wins majors by taking the lead and having everyone on the course know that he is not going to give any ground to the rest of the field. Therefore, those who are trailing are forced to hit shots in certain situations that may be more of a gamble or that they may not be fully comfortable with in order to catch up. Tiger wasn't playing at his best and the position that he was in on 15 in the right rough, 2 shots behind Zach Johnson (with Johnson playing 18 at that point after having bogeyed 17 - meaning he probably won't give up THAT much ground at this point) forced him to go for the green in two because he was running out of holes. He hadn't played 17 or 18 that well during the week, so 16 with its generous pin position was probably his other best chance at making birdie to cut the lead. As soon as he hit the shot on 15 you could see it was cutting too much, and he didn't pull it off.

Jorgesgolf

[jorgesgolf]

Sorry Cleveland Gunmetal - I didn't see your post before I made mine. It's pretty much the same idea.

Jorgesgolf

[Fisherdude]

He had the lead going to the 18th hole. Thus, that's exactly when he "lost" the tournament.

OK, back to Tiger.

Directly connecting Tiger to your comments about Phil, i.e. that a player can't "lose" a tournament early in the tournament by dropping strokes, that Phil lost the tournament on 18 because that's when he had the lead, then you must understand Tiger's play at the Masters better than Tiger does, because he said he lost the tournament on Thursday and Friday, when he lost four strokes on 17 and 18 while he did NOT have the lead. If a player goes quad-quad in the first two holes of a 72 hole tournament, ends up tied for the lead on the 72nd tee, makes a tap in par, and his opponent makes a birdie, do you honestly think the player will feel like he "lost" the tournament on the 72nd hole??? If you ask the player: "When do you feel like you lost the tournament?", what do you think he would say? Come on! Tiger had a few too many bad holes, primarily early in the tournament, and that's when he says he lost it. I'm going out on a limb here, and I'm going to agree with Tiger. He didn't choke, he just didn't play his best, and someone else did play their best.

[Fisherdude]

There won't be a "Tiger Choked" thread for this tournament because Tiger didn't choke. Failing to birdie 17 & 18 at Augusta trying to catch the leader in the clubhouse is not choking.

Couldn't have said it better.

[satch_ip]

Eric, I love ya man!! I knew this thread would get you fired up.

Let's see... Tiger shot Par on a course he owns while three other guys posted 69. But that is not my point.

Historically speaking, Tiger (12 majors, never lost when he had a lead, 50+ victories, 70.85 scoring avg #1 in history) had a better chance to win than Phil (two majors, 3 runner ups at US Open, and a rep as a "river boat gambler"). If you were to plunk money dow in Vegas would you put it on Phil at 18 or Tiger at 2?

Tiger had the lead alone after 2 holes. Zach went out and played better. Tiger couldn't keep up with him.

And yes I do listen to the podcast. Every week you bag on Phil for everything under the sun. You probably blame him for global warming too!

Who among us didn't think it was over when Tiger took the lead after #2? If not then then when Tiger made that eagle with 5 to go. Who didn't think here he comes. Zach Johnson thought the same thing. I just think that it is more significant that Tiger didn't catch Zach than Phil blowing the Open when looked in a Macro sense.

[BigAl5150]

Who among us didn't think it was over when Tiger took the lead after #2? If not then then when Tiger made that eagle with 5 to go. Who didn't think here he comes. Zach Johnson thought the same thing.

I didn't and I don't think you know what was going through Zack Johnson's head (his interviews don't show your opinion - he claims he didn't pay attention to the leaderboard).

The reason Tiger didn't win wasn't because he "choked" it was for his poor course management and lack of adjustments he made. His drives needed a GPS to find them in the trees all weekend. Tiger's driving accuracy was 55.36% which was 46th for the tournament. Last year at the Open Championship he adjusted to the conditions and won and at the PGA Championship, he adjusted and won. It was over when he dumped his second shot on 15 into the drink while going for the green in two off a questionable lie (just my opinion).

[iacas]

Directly connecting Tiger to your comments about Phil, i.e. that a player can't "lose" a tournament early in the tournament by dropping strokes, that Phil lost the tournament on 18 because that's when he had the lead, then you must understand Tiger's play at the Masters better than Tiger does, because he said he lost the tournament on Thursday and Friday, when he lost four strokes on 17 and 18 while he did NOT have the lead.

This thread is about losing via choking. Tiger didn't "lose" the tournament by choking. Phil "lost" the tournament because he had the lead. Tiger "lost" the tournament several times throughout the week, but never by choking.

Furthermore, you're apparently not even listening. I said "Tiger didn't choke. Heck, he parred the last four holes on a course where (this year) par was a good score. In his words, he lost the tournament on 17 and 18 on Thursday and Saturday, not on Sunday."

Eric, I love ya man!! I knew this thread would get you fired up.

It's Erik, and I'm far from fired up. I think it's a dumb thread, as others have said.

And yes I do listen to the podcast. Every week you bag on Phil for everything under the sun.

Not quite true, no.

Who among us didn't think it was over when Tiger took the lead after #2?

Erik raises his hand. I saw how Tiger played the other holes the rest of the week. I saw how the course was playing. I know how well Tiger was driving the ball.

If not then then when Tiger made that eagle with 5 to go.

I again raise my hand. I didn't think he'd win. I barely even commented on his eagle in

my live blog . I said the complexion changed, but that was about it. He didn't have enough holes left, and two back-nine eagles is a rare event. And heck, bogeys at 17 and 18 were still likely or possible for Tiger.

Zach Johnson thought the same thing.

He says he didn't.

I just think that it is more significant that Tiger didn't catch Zach than Phil blowing the Open when looked in a Macro sense.

Uh, gonna have to agree to disagree there. Phil choked. Tiger just didn't play well. Big difference.

[iacas]

The reason Tiger didn't win wasn't because he "choked" it was for his poor course management and lack of adjustments he made. His drives needed a GPS to find them in the trees all weekend. Tiger's driving accuracy was 55.36% which was 46th for the tournament. Last year at the Open Championship he adjusted to the conditions and won and at the PGA Championship, he adjusted and won. It was over when he dumped his second shot on 15 into the drink while going for the green in two off a questionable lie (just my opinion).

Indeed. I wrote this in my live blog: "One wonders what score Tiger would be at if Stevie, at the start of each round, snapped Tiger's driver across his knee."

He didn't play Augusta like he did at the Open or even the PGA. I bet he would have won if he had just hit 3W most of the week. He'd have still been past Zach Johnson most of the time.

[jorgesgolf]

The course that Tiger "owned" in years past is not the same course that he was presented with this time around. I saw a replay of the Masters from 2006 and the difference in the greens between 2006 and 2007 was incredible. Shots that were landing and sticking on 13 and 15 in 2006 were not even attempted this year due to the greens acting like concrete with astroturf overtop (at least for Thurs-Sat).

I wasn't ready to hand the tournament over to Tiger after he made birdie at 2 because it seemed like he was treading water while there were at least 4 or 5 guys that were playing really well a few holes ahead. You could see with his missed 3woods first left and then right, that everything was not okay. When he dumped into the bunker on 10 it seemed like he was out to lunch mentally for a few minutes. You could see a smirk on his face as he covered his face with his cap and I thought he was thinking "this may not be my day." It wasn't all that surprising that he failed to get up and down and that he knocked his drive into the woods on 11 either. When he made the eagle at 13, however, I think that was a real boost for him and you could see his demeanor change.

Jorgesgolf