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Posted

Hi Guys,

I suffer from a big push shot, to push slice, to straight slice, to straight pull (All with driver)

one of the things i have noticed about my swing is in my setup and how i set-up,....but i just want to see if my logic perhaps ring true,..

I line the clubface at my target, my feet.hips/kness are paralell to this, i take my left hand grip and line up to the ball,......I then reach my right hand in and take the grip and what ive noticed is this pushes my shoulders open and gets my right forearm slightly higher than my left,....after doing a few very slow takeaways i noticed the driver head started outwards rather than straight or slightly in,...

So my question is

Could this opening of the shoulders be the root evil of my ailments off the tee that is then compounded by further attempts in the swing to square thing up and un-necessary compensations?

I hit my irons really nice, and my conclusion is my shoulders arent open when setting up with an iron.

Apologies for no swing video, its more a train of thought im working with here

:tmade: Driver: TM Superfast 2.0 - 9.5degree - Reg flex
:mizuno: 3 Wood: JPX800 - 16* Exhsar5 Stiff
:mizuno: 3 - PW: MP-67 Cut Muscle back - S300 stiff
:slazenger: Sand Wedge: 54degree, 12degree bounce
:slazenger: Lob Wedge: 60degree 10degree bounce
:ping: Putter: Karsten 1959 Anser 2 Toe weighted
:mizuno: Bag - Cart Style


Posted

It sounds like you are mostly coming over the top. You start your downswing by turning your shoulders.

This is a good video to see how to come from the inside.

5 Simple Keys® Associate

"Golf is not a game of great shots. It's a game of the most accurate misses.

The people who win make the smallest mistakes." - Gene Littler

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted

thanks for the reply,

MY pro has been telling me that coming from the inside with an open clubface is causing these shots, which can make sense,....but i dont think its as simple as that

Ive always had a flat swing and always thought it lead to an over the top swing tocompensate for early errors,..

its looking like i might be right and getting the alignment and swingpath wrong to begin with is completely negating wether i swing flat or upright cus its always gunna tend to be OTT

:tmade: Driver: TM Superfast 2.0 - 9.5degree - Reg flex
:mizuno: 3 Wood: JPX800 - 16* Exhsar5 Stiff
:mizuno: 3 - PW: MP-67 Cut Muscle back - S300 stiff
:slazenger: Sand Wedge: 54degree, 12degree bounce
:slazenger: Lob Wedge: 60degree 10degree bounce
:ping: Putter: Karsten 1959 Anser 2 Toe weighted
:mizuno: Bag - Cart Style


Posted

No, coming from the inside will cause the opposite a draw or hook. But you can hit a push fade if the club is open with a square swing path. A strsight slice is when the face is square and the path is out to in. look at the ball flight law chart below.

Ball Flight Laws.jpg

5 Simple Keys® Associate

"Golf is not a game of great shots. It's a game of the most accurate misses.

The people who win make the smallest mistakes." - Gene Littler

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted

awesome, thanks for helping me clear this up in my head,.

will be trying better alignment with my shoulders and slowing the transition down somewhat at the range later

cheers again

:tmade: Driver: TM Superfast 2.0 - 9.5degree - Reg flex
:mizuno: 3 Wood: JPX800 - 16* Exhsar5 Stiff
:mizuno: 3 - PW: MP-67 Cut Muscle back - S300 stiff
:slazenger: Sand Wedge: 54degree, 12degree bounce
:slazenger: Lob Wedge: 60degree 10degree bounce
:ping: Putter: Karsten 1959 Anser 2 Toe weighted
:mizuno: Bag - Cart Style


Posted

I had the same problem. Shoulders open at address and subsequently they where way open at impact as where my hips resulting in alot push cuts, pull cuts, pull hooks... variety due to the alignment issue.

Basically try to hit the ball with your shoulders and hips closed.

A good video i was recommended was the one below.

 909 D2 10.5º S-Flex   RBZ 3W 15º S-Flex

 909h 19º S-Flex

 G15 (4-6) i15 (7-PW) Project X Rifle 5.5  52º, 56º & 58º

  California Del Mar 34"     Pro-V1

 

"Golf is a lot of walking, broken up by disappointment and bad arithmetic"

 


Posted

thanks for the input, afraid stack and tilt doesnt do it for me after trying for many months and posting alot about it on here actually,

Lowest score i could shoot was mid 90's

switched back to a more conventional swing and now shoot mid-low 80's

the driver problem plagued me with both swing types however, and continues to do so

:tmade: Driver: TM Superfast 2.0 - 9.5degree - Reg flex
:mizuno: 3 Wood: JPX800 - 16* Exhsar5 Stiff
:mizuno: 3 - PW: MP-67 Cut Muscle back - S300 stiff
:slazenger: Sand Wedge: 54degree, 12degree bounce
:slazenger: Lob Wedge: 60degree 10degree bounce
:ping: Putter: Karsten 1959 Anser 2 Toe weighted
:mizuno: Bag - Cart Style


Posted

To be honest i dont really follow and abide by the stack & tilt philosphy either but i think there is alot of valuable information that can be extracted from it.

Regardless if you are stack & tilt or not i think that the shoulder alignment issue you mentioned should still be looked in to. If you could video your swing im sure there are alot of people on here who have a much broader knowledge of the golf swing than me who would be happy to give you some tips/advice.

 909 D2 10.5º S-Flex   RBZ 3W 15º S-Flex

 909h 19º S-Flex

 G15 (4-6) i15 (7-PW) Project X Rifle 5.5  52º, 56º & 58º

  California Del Mar 34"     Pro-V1

 

"Golf is a lot of walking, broken up by disappointment and bad arithmetic"

 


Posted

yeah i know what u mean, alot of S&T stuff has stayed in my swing like getting the weight forward,...

Video would be ideal but i cant get it uploaded as dont own a PC, just mobile phone and works pc which wont let me upload stuff

to describe it in simple terms.

1) I address the ball with square feet, square hips, square shoulders

2) I hold my driver out in front of me and take my grip and im still all square,

3) i place the clubhead behind the ball which is usually an inch or so inside my left heel, and BOOM, my shoulders are now open and my hips a tad open also

4) I can only conclude this buggers me from the outside with an outside the line backswing,....

:tmade: Driver: TM Superfast 2.0 - 9.5degree - Reg flex
:mizuno: 3 Wood: JPX800 - 16* Exhsar5 Stiff
:mizuno: 3 - PW: MP-67 Cut Muscle back - S300 stiff
:slazenger: Sand Wedge: 54degree, 12degree bounce
:slazenger: Lob Wedge: 60degree 10degree bounce
:ping: Putter: Karsten 1959 Anser 2 Toe weighted
:mizuno: Bag - Cart Style


Posted

I had a similar problem as you and am working at solving it. Basically, I thought my clubface was square to the target, but it was actually open to the target by quite a bit when I finally got set up and started the backswing.

What I do now is pretty much just what you do, but instead of grip with what you think is square to the target, grip it 15 degrees or so shut to what you currently are (not totally sure on the degree value, experiment).

Then, setup with slightly closed hips and shoulders and swing through. I'm getting pretty consistent draws off the tee now.


Posted

thanks anthony

managed to book myself a lesson on video tonight at the range, ill explain to the pro before we start "what i think i ahve traced the issue back to"

and go from there,

I can only presume that my driver setup forces a pull/push/slice,....and that swing pattern transfers to my irons which is why i only pull them instead of push/slice them aswell

time will tell after tonight i guess

:tmade: Driver: TM Superfast 2.0 - 9.5degree - Reg flex
:mizuno: 3 Wood: JPX800 - 16* Exhsar5 Stiff
:mizuno: 3 - PW: MP-67 Cut Muscle back - S300 stiff
:slazenger: Sand Wedge: 54degree, 12degree bounce
:slazenger: Lob Wedge: 60degree 10degree bounce
:ping: Putter: Karsten 1959 Anser 2 Toe weighted
:mizuno: Bag - Cart Style


Posted

I should add that my miss would be a push or a push slice before I strengthened my grip. If you're pull slicing or hitting a straight slice, you're coming over the top more than likely.

Also, watch your backswing length. I was getting way out of shape with my driver because of my backswing . I taped my self and noticed when I was getting past a certain point in the backswing I came out of my posture, moved my head away from the ball, etc. Now, I stop at what feels like 60% of what I was doing previously.


Posted

cheers anthony,...

I hit a myriad of shot,...predominantly push/push slice

i actually noticed lengthening my backswing helped somewhat,....but i think this jsut gets my shoulders turning better,...which would tie up with the "open shoulders at address" thing ive concluded to at the minute,...obviously the longer backswing aids me getting them from open to fuller turned,.....i imagine with square shoulders a shorter backswing would be required to gain the same effect of fully turned shoulders

I used to lift out of my posture when i had a seriously flat golf swing in an attempt to get into a decent position at the top,.....i swing much more upright now which has eliminated that part of my problem

:tmade: Driver: TM Superfast 2.0 - 9.5degree - Reg flex
:mizuno: 3 Wood: JPX800 - 16* Exhsar5 Stiff
:mizuno: 3 - PW: MP-67 Cut Muscle back - S300 stiff
:slazenger: Sand Wedge: 54degree, 12degree bounce
:slazenger: Lob Wedge: 60degree 10degree bounce
:ping: Putter: Karsten 1959 Anser 2 Toe weighted
:mizuno: Bag - Cart Style


Posted


Originally Posted by EverythingGolf

It sounds like you are mostly coming over the top. You start your downswing by turning your shoulders.

This is a good video to see how to come from the inside.




Actually you should start the downswing with a slight forward weight shift.  I dont know of any teaching pro who says you should start the downswing with the shoulders.

Whats in my :sunmountain: C-130 cart bag?

Woods: :mizuno: JPX 850 9.5*, :mizuno: JPX 850 15*, :mizuno: JPX-850 19*, :mizuno: JPX Fli-Hi #4, :mizuno: JPX 800 Pro 5-PW, :mizuno: MP T-4 50-06, 54-09 58-10, :cleveland: Smart Square Blade and :bridgestone: B330-S


Posted

Actually I think he meant to say the poster is probably starting with his shoulders as the video does not say to do that.

Originally Posted by TitleistWI

Actually you should start the downswing with a slight forward weight shift.  I dont know of any teaching pro who says you should start the downswing with the shoulders.



Carlos


Posted



Originally Posted by Nole77

Actually I think he meant to say the poster is probably starting with his shoulders as the video does not say to do that.



Yes I was talking about Carp. must be starting the down swing with the shoulders. Sorry for the miss communication.

5 Simple Keys® Associate

"Golf is not a game of great shots. It's a game of the most accurate misses.

The people who win make the smallest mistakes." - Gene Littler

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted


Originally Posted by carpediem4300

Hi Guys,

I suffer from a big push shot, to push slice, to straight slice, to straight pull (All with driver)

one of the things i have noticed about my swing is in my setup and how i set-up,....but i just want to see if my logic perhaps ring true,..

I line the clubface at my target, my feet.hips/kness are paralell to this, i take my left hand grip and line up to the ball,......I then reach my right hand in and take the grip and what ive noticed is this pushes my shoulders open and gets my right forearm slightly higher than my left,....after doing a few very slow takeaways i noticed the driver head started outwards rather than straight or slightly in,...

So my question is

Could this opening of the shoulders be the root evil of my ailments off the tee that is then compounded by further attempts in the swing to square thing up and un-necessary compensations?

I hit my irons really nice, and my conclusion is my shoulders arent open when setting up with an iron.

Apologies for no swing video, its more a train of thought im working with here


Sounds a lot like me a couple of years ago - turns out it was my alignment! My upper body was too vertical - not tilted away from the target enough. Now, I keep my head centered between my feet - push my hips forward - and shazam! I can bring the club to the ball from the inside. Without the slight tilt away from the target with my upper body, my right side would be too high and my shoulders would be open on the long shafted clubs. That's my story.

Titleist 910D2 10.5* Stiff / Taylormade 3 Wood - Superfast 2.0 15*  3 Superfast 2.0 Rescue 18* Stiff Shafts


Posted
I have the same issue with slices and pushes. Finally got a lesson and the instructor pointed out my open shoulders. It causes you to come across the ball thus causing the slice. We worked on square shoulders and forearms and it really helped.

Note: This thread is 5019 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

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    • Please see this topic for updated information:
    • When you've been teaching golf as long as I have, you're going to find that you can teach some things better than you previously had, and you're probably going to find some things that you taught incorrectly. I don't see that as a bad thing — what would be worse is refusing to adapt and grow given new information. I've always said that my goal with my instruction isn't to be right, but it's to get things right. To that end, I'm about five years late in issuing a public proclamation on something… When I first got my GEARS system, I immediately looked at the golf swings of the dozens and dozens of Tour players for which I suddenly had full 3D data. I created a huge spreadsheet showing how their bodies moved, how the club moved, at various points in the swing. I mapped knee and elbow angles, hand speeds, shoulder turns and pelvis turns… etc. I re-considered what I thought I knew about the golf swing as performed by the best players. One of those things dated back to the earliest days: that you extend (I never taught "straighten" and would avoid using that word unless in the context of saying "don't fully straighten") the trail knee/leg in the backswing. I was mislead by 2D photos from less-than-ideal camera angles — the trail leg rotates a bit during the backswing, and so when observing trail knee flex should also use a camera that moves to stay perpendicular to the plane of the ankle/knee/hip joint. We have at least two topics here on this (here and here; both of which I'll be updating after publishing this) where @mvmac and I advise golfers to extend the trail knee. Learning that this was not right is one of the reasons I'm glad to have a 3D system, as most golfers generally preserve the trail knee flex throughout the backswing. Data Here's a video showing an iron and a driver of someone who has won the career slam: Here's what the graph of his right knee flex looks like. The solid lines I've positioned at the top of the backswing (GEARS aligns both swings at impact, the dashed line). Address is to the right, of course, and the graph shows knee flex from the two swings above. The data (17.56° and 23.20°) shows where this player is in both swings (orange being the yellow iron swing, pink the blue driver swing). You can see that this golfer extends his trail knee 2-3°… before bending it even more than that through the late backswing and early downswing. Months ago I created a quick Instagram video showing the trail knee flex in the backswing of several players (see the top for the larger number): Erik J. Barzeski (@iacas) • Instagram reel GEARS shares expert advice on golf swing technique, focusing on the critical backswing phase. Tour winners and major champions reveal the key to a precise and powerful swing, highlighting the importance of... Here are a few more graphs. 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    • Day 6 - 2025-12-25 10 minutes of swing work on the mat and net. Focus on turn and weight shift.
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