Counterfeit Titleist AP2s

[moparman426]

Sigh....  still not quite getting it....We're talking about the act of not paying.  Nowhere did anyone say someone else actually did it.  He says it OK to do it, and I disagreed with him.  Don't read into it any more than that.  Also, I didn't call anyone a douche, I said it would be a douche thing to do if someone won an auction and didn't pay for it because they decided they didn't want the item anymore.   It's a loophole if there is a legitimate reason for not paying, such as a counterfeit item.  There isn't a loophole for "Non-Paying Bidder" in general.  Get too many of those, and you will be punished.

Go have some coffee will ya', obviously you're still a little sleepy there on the west coast.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by moparman426

Sigh....  still not quite getting it....We're talking about the act of not paying.  Nowhere did anyone say someone else actually did it.  He says it OK to do it, and I disagreed with him.  Don't read into it any more than that.  Also, I didn't call anyone a douche, I said it would be a douche thing to do if someone won an auction and didn't pay for it because they decided they didn't want the item anymore.   It's a loophole if there is a legitimate reason for not paying, such as a counterfeit item.  There isn't a loophole for "Non-Paying Bidder" in general.  Get too many of those, and you will be punished.

Go have some coffee will ya', obviously you're still a little sleepy there on the west coast.

Um, I have a 3 yr old and an 11 month old ... it makes no difference what time of day it is, I'm ALWAYS sleepy.

He said it's OK to do it in the sense that physically its possible and allowed (i.e. they can't just take money out of your account)  However, he did not say that he thinks it morally OK to do so in any circumstance.  (Other than, obviously, this case)  The reason I am suggesting that you are jumping to a conclusion is that you took his statement of fact (ebay allows it, because its happened to him and he confirmed it with them on the phone yesterday) and turned it into his philosophy.  Him "knowing its allowed" does not equal "him thinking its OK."  I just don't see anywhere in the thread where he said he thinks its a tool that should be used any other time than this one.

On another less exasparating (for both of us) note:  The auction appears to still be up and the high bid is $680.

[Motley01]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

Except in the case we are talking about there are extenuating circumstances.  He's trying to A) Prevent a seller from making money off of counterfeit products, and B) Prevent somebody from unwittingly buying counterfeit products.  I would say that makes him the opposite of a douche.  (That doesn't sound quite right, but you get what I mean)

Thank you sir!!! This is exaclty my point.

[Ernest Jones]

This has become a rather grumpy thread...

[moparman426]

I think you are misinterpreting what e-bay responded to you with, Motley.  Their reply was in response to a bid on a counterfeit item, not auctions in general.  You generalized their response to a particular incident into a blanket statement, and stated you don't have to pay for any auctions you win.  This is exactly my point.  I bet if you asked them if it's ok not to pay for any of your winning auctions, their reply would be of a different tone.

[Motley01]

Wow moparman doesn't get it.

I NEVER SAID I WAS I NON PAYING BUYER!!! If and only if, they did not shut the auction down in time, I would then use my excrusiating circumstances to not pay for it.

In fact, I have never ever in all the years I've had my ebay account (10yrs), have never paid for an item I won.

Thanks Golfingdad, you completely understand my intentions here!

[moparman426]

Originally Posted by Motley01

So let me repeat the ebay process. When your bid wins an auction. You do not have to pay for it. Period. Straight from the ebay customer service.

[moparman426]

Originally Posted by Motley01

Um sorry, not correct. Anyone can win an auction, but not pay. I have had non-paying buyers when I was selling things. I never got paid, so the transaction was canceled.

What would ebay do? Paypal can't take money out of your account.

As long as you don't do it all the time, they keep track how many non-paying auctions you have in the past.

[Motley01]

Look I don't do it, let's keep this clear. But it is a fact that you do not have to pay for an auction you won. It happens all the time, including me as the seller. If you do it all the time, then there are reprucutions.

Now can we stop this nonsense he said she said, good lord....

[moparman426]

Nope, never did I say or imply that you did.  I am sure you are a fine, upstanding member of the e-bay community, and public in general.   I was pointing to the fact that your post about e-bay's response leads one to believe that there are no repercussions to being a NPB (by e-bay, not you) as if they condone it, outside of the counterfeit fiasco.  My whole debate was about the actual e-bay statement you "linked", not your particular view on the subject, even though it appeared to come across that way.  Take it for what it's worth.

Have a good morning.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by Motley01

My BIG question here though is, how and where do these people get these fake clubs from?

I mean, they did do a decent job, and apparantly 22 bidders have not even noticed them.

I know counterfeit golf goods are a big problem right now. Sure wish we could find out there sources.

I'd rather talk about this more.  I cannot imagine who is doing it, how, and where.  Because it's not like these are easy to spot.  I would have never noticed.  I remember back in the '80s and '90s when counterfeit clubs weren't so much a problem as "knock-offs."  You could walk into any regular sports store and buy a set of clubs with a name like "Big Brother," or "King Snake."  My first set of clubs were "tour model II" and I think they were modeled after Ping Eye 2 in the '80s.  They may have been a problem for the OEMs, but at least they weren't giving buyers any illusions that they were actually buying Callaways, Cobras or Pings.

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

Quote:

Originally Posted by Motley01

My BIG question here though is, how and where do these people get these fake clubs from?

I mean, they did do a decent job, and apparantly 22 bidders have not even noticed them.

I know counterfeit golf goods are a big problem right now. Sure wish we could find out there sources.

I'd rather talk about this more.  I cannot imagine who is doing it, how, and where.  Because it's not like these are easy to spot.  I would have never noticed.  I remember back in the '80s and '90s when counterfeit clubs weren't so much a problem as "knock-offs."  You could walk into any regular sports store and buy a set of clubs with a name like "Big Brother," or "King Snake."  My first set of clubs were "tour model II" and I think they were modeled after Ping Eye 2 in the '80s.  They may have been a problem for the OEMs, but at least they weren't giving buyers any illusions that they were actually buying Callaways, Cobras or Pings.

Yes they were. Everyone I knew who used knockoffs made sure to say what original they were inspired by. That's still the case.

[Motley01]

Originally Posted by Motley01

Uh oh, it looks like they are cracking down on these internet sites selling this crap.

Read this article here: http://www.internetretailer.com/2012/04/10/court-shuts-down-175-sites-selling-counterfeit-golf-goods

Did you guys see this article? They just shut down a bunch of sites selling counterfeit golf products. So that is good to know they are doing something about it. I bet it costs these Golf companies millions each year.

I wish they would do more on ebay though, like prosecute these people. I know I know, it would be impossible since there are so many.

[RichWW2]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

I'd rather talk about this more.  I cannot imagine who is doing it, how, and where.  Because it's not like these are easy to spot.  I would have never noticed.  I remember back in the '80s and '90s when counterfeit clubs weren't so much a problem as "knock-offs."  You could walk into any regular sports store and buy a set of clubs with a name like "Big Brother," or "King Snake."  My first set of clubs were "tour model II" and I think they were modeled after Ping Eye 2 in the '80s.  They may have been a problem for the OEMs, but at least they weren't giving buyers any illusions that they were actually buying Callaways, Cobras or Pings.

Not sure if this is on topic enough for this thread, but do knock-off's/clones have the same stigma as counterfeit clubs? I'm curious to see some people's opinions on this...

[moparman426]

Originally Posted by RichWW2

Not sure if this is on topic enough for this thread, but do knock-off's/clones have the same stigma as counterfeit clubs? I'm curious to see some people's opinions on this...

Gigagolf has a clone for pretty much every popular OEM club on the market.  I am not sure about their quality, but I do know there are a few members here who use their products, and seem quite satisfied with the performance (and value).  My first "new" clubs were knockoffs.  They were Powerglide I think, a knock-off of Ping.  Worst mistake I ever made when it came to golf purchases.  The driver exploded after only a few uses (literally tore the face and crown off).  I prefer to buy used equipment now, it also keeps it's resale value.  I have pretty much sold everything I bought for only slightly less than I paid for it, when upgrade time rolls around.

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by moparman426

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichWW2

Not sure if this is on topic enough for this thread, but do knock-off's/clones have the same stigma as counterfeit clubs? I'm curious to see some people's opinions on this...

Gigagolf has a clone for pretty much every popular OEM club on the market.  I am not sure about their quality, but I do know there are a few members here who use their products, and seem quite satisfied with the performance (and value).

I doubt a high handicapper could tell the difference between a knockoffs or counterfeits and the real thing based on shot quality. Same goes for recycled golf balls.

[RichWW2]

Thanks for the responses Mopar and Sean.  I did do a search on here for knock-off/clones and it seems mostly positive.  I have some pinemeadow cleveland knock-off wedges and I couldn't tell the different when I hit the actual cleveland wedges.  I'm not that high a HDC, but it would be interesting to see if the pro's could tell a difference in a "blind taste test" type of situation. It'd be funny to watch Phil or Tiger crap their pants when they can't tell the difference between their expensive custom made clubs and some cheap knock-offs.

Anyway, back to the OT: I wonder if ebay will take the auction down or alert the winning bidder about the counterfeit clubs? Seems kind of crappy if they didn't...

[moparman426]

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