On Course Push Fix

[Hollister]

Hi all,

been hitting a lot of pushes today on the course - and a few push slices with the longer sticks.

What is the most likely fix for a push during a round for you?

[shortstop20]

Push means the path and face are matched but the path is inside out.

First check your grip. If it's Neutral or Strong and you're still hitting pushes, chances are your path is getting thrown out to the right(severely inside out). In which case, you need to diagnose why the path is so far out to the right.

If you have a weak grip, well then that's easy, just strengthen it. : )

[Hollister]

Grip should be OK - I will check next time.

My golf bible says "but of the club" could be a possible cause. I worked on elbows (closer together) lately, which made my results with the driver way better. The iron swing seems to suffered a bit from exaggerated moves for the driver.

So it is back to the range...

[iacas]

Add a teeny bit of "rev the motorcycle" to the downswing. Twist the shaft from 12 o'clock to 10 o'clock slightly, which palmar flexes the lead wrist. Just do that throughout the entire downswing.

[Hollister]

:D

Been back to my evolvr lessons 18 months ago. I find that I understand things way better now. OK, the 6 months winter injury related break left a lot time to read up on things.

And yes, I have to put some work in on the right wrist action on the downswing. I still tend to forget that on the course.

Next time I try to quick fix the push "watching" the hands a little closer.

[Hollister]

OK, got video. I am swinging too far back, the left arm is too low. Not new, but I thought I fixed it over the past weeks before moving to other things last week.

Fix: point the right thumb down the stance line at P3, to the right ear at A/P4 - feel-wise, that is. And let the flexing right arm do the lifting from P3 on. And a few things more on the down-swing.

Ah, I begin babbling to myself again. Well, I need a caddie with a cam shadowing me on the course. Hey Foley, where are you when I need you following me around with that cam-pocket thingy? Huh!

Regarding revving the throttle - how do you think about counter clockwise rotation of the right forearm on the back-swing? Is that "feel"/move worth anything?

[shortstop20]

Originally Posted by Hollister

OK, got video. I am swinging too far back, the left arm is too low. Not new, but I thought I fixed it over the past weeks before moving to other things last week.

Fix: point the right thumb down the stance line at P3, to the right ear at A/P4 - feel-wise, that is. And let the flexing right arm do the lifting from P3 on. And a few things more on the down-swing.

Ah, I begin babbling to myself again. Well, I need a caddie with a cam shadowing me on the course. Hey Foley, where are you when I need you following me around with that cam-pocket thingy? Huh!

Regarding revving the throttle - how do you think about counter clockwise rotation of the right forearm on the back-swing? Is that "feel"/move worth anything?

I like to think "Ricky Fowler" when I'm working on that. Ignore Nick Faldo.

[Hollister]

I consider myself way post Faldo...

My arms at P4 look like the Strech pic - and he is not happy with it, too.

[GlasgowsGreen]

Originally Posted by shortstop20

Push means the path and face are matched but the path is inside out.

First check your grip. If it's Neutral or Strong and you're still hitting pushes, chances are your path is getting thrown out to the right(severely inside out). In which case, you need to diagnose why the path is so far out to the right.

If you have a weak grip, well then that's easy, just strengthen it. : )

Hi, can you explain what you mean by 'path is so far out to the right'?

75% of my shots at the moment are push shots i.e. going right of centre in a straight line.

My grip is strong and I have a good, consistent setup, but for the life of me I can't stop hitting the ball out right.

In the past I have suffered from an 'out to in' swing path. Do you think I have maybe over compensated and now have an 'in to out'?

What else would cause a push shot?

Thanks

[Hollister]

Well, you have to ask yourself why club face and path are on the same in-to-out line at impact. You can work on both to improve the ball flight.

The best is to video your swing and have it looked at either here or by your pro. Without video it is really hard to analyze.

Here the chart I have always in my bag (to remind me and show to my friends when discussing ball flight). Closing the club face (stronger grip) should in theory help to produce to a draw (8 -> 7).

(chart done be Zeph - thanks a bunch for it!)

[duffedit]

I was struggling with the same peoblem last season.....my golf pro told me it was coming from me having to much lateral movement in my swing i qorked on rotating better and not over cooking my back swing and my pushed shoots started to disappear for the most part

[GlasgowsGreen]

Thanks for the chart. Guess I've over corrected by 'out to in' former slicing swing!

[golfinguy87]

Good advice

[Adam Young]

Originally Posted by Hollister

OK, got video. I am swinging too far back, the left arm is too low. Not new, but I thought I fixed it over the past weeks before moving to other things last week.

Fix: point the right thumb down the stance line at P3, to the right ear at A/P4 - feel-wise, that is. And let the flexing right arm do the lifting from P3 on. And a few things more on the down-swing.

Ah, I begin babbling to myself again. Well, I need a caddie with a cam shadowing me on the course. Hey Foley, where are you when I need you following me around with that cam-pocket thingy? Huh!

Regarding revving the throttle - how do you think about counter clockwise rotation of the right forearm on the back-swing? Is that "feel"/move worth anything?

Sorry, but you sound way too analytical. I am a golf teacher, and although I understand everything you said, I also realise that you can't play golf thinking like that. as a backhanded compliment, you are too intelligent for you own good. It will end up being the reason for your lack of improvement, trust me.

A push or push slice is caused by the path and face being right at impact. The face is the dominant factor, so it is even possible that your path is left and your face is just wide open. either way, we know for sure your clubface is open at impact. What is your handicap btw???

The route I would go on the course, three options really

1. aim physically and mentally left - left side of fairway, left green etc. This will bring both your path and face alignment more left. Aim more down the centre of the fairway if there is trouble left. This is probably the easiest fix to do and lets you get around the course until you can get to the range and fix it. The only problem with this is that it doesn't address the real problem, and maybe you will be losing so much distance from the open face that it really isn't playable. However, I would be more inclined to suggest this option first
2. close the face at address. Not only does this influence the clubface at impact - more closed - but it also signifies to your subconscious to swing more to the left. This addresses the problem more directly, although not in a textbook way. The main problem with this is that you can open up a new miss, basically you hit more left whilst your subconscius mind is trying to play for the push slice. Only a good option if you have experimented with this before - i would be more inclined to do this if a push slice occurred in my warm up pre-round.
3. Swing change - path and/or face change is the goal - maybe working on a swing idea to get it. Probably the worst of the options, but the one everyone seems to go for anyway. Basically, you are going to open up a whole load of misses, and your co-ordination will be greatly affected as you will be thinking about your swing too much. Science proves this, my experience in playing and teaching backs this up largely. Swing changes (on course) are only usually effective if your results are simply unplayable after strategy changes, or they are ingrained. sometimes, if they are very simple, they can work too.

The first two are basically quick fixes, 1. being a strategy change and 2. being a quick plaster. However, in a game situation we need to get the ball around the course in as few shots as possible, with as little mental disturbanc as possible. Most great players will do either 1. or 2. or a combination of both. Poorer players usually go for 3, because they think it is the 'right' way. I too used to go with whatver would make my swing more orthodox, before I learned truly that the game is played differently by the best in the world - playing with some great players helped me realise this.

Swallow your pride - and shut your face (clubface that is). Start tinkering with your swing after the round - then practice it until it is ingrained. Then go out and play, repeat.

Hope that helps.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by Adam Young

The first two are basically quick fixes

Yep. I was going to say "I disagree he's being too analytical" but the topic is "On course push fix" and on the course is NOT the time to be analytical at all about your golf swing. On the course, you need to figure something out fast. Aim left or close the clubface. You gotta do something.

When you're done, that's the time to work on it on the practice range, film, experiment with feels to improve the mechanics, etc.

[Hollister]

Yep, right, on the course things have to work and thinking has to stop. Thats why I was asking for a fix. I will aim even more to the left the next time for the rest of the round and stop thinking about it.

The analysis on the driving range helped to analyze the why. Since changing to S&T; two years ago, the push was always an issue, albeit a small one. I worked the last months on getting the right arm higher and the left arm "in front" of my body at to top of the swing. I did not hit a push for the past six or seven weeks when I began practicing after a longer break.

It is really helpful to know where your bad shots might come from. Last week I lost my confidence at one point.

Thanks for your advice!

[Hollister]

OK, two weeks and two rounds later - none the wiser.

Rounds start just great. Straight shots, optimal distance, center hits, pars and bogeys. Perfect for me.

But then the swing with the 3w and 3h slowly falls apart from hole 4 and on. Tolerable 10 yard pushes off the tee first, by hole 10 I hit up to 50 yard push slices and off-center hits.

It translates to the longer irons with fat or off-center hits, too. Fat is bad, off-center is 15 yards less distance, 10-15 yards to the left or right.

First I just aimed to the left. Perfect, good distance, all cool. At 30+ yards plus slice spin off the tee it gets hairy.

Gripping stronger was no help at that point, too. I hit straight pushes with the 4h and irons 4/5, push slices with 3w/3h/d - and straight hooks. Funny thing is that I hit straight shots with the 3h/4h in between the erratic shots.

After a good nights sleep I think that I got too confident too early yesterday. After a very good start I lost my swing being overly ambitious. Either too fast with the upper body rotation (open out-to-in) or too much from the inside (open in-to-out).

Loss of concentration? The worse it gets, the level annoyance grows. Tried to stay cool, but it did not translate to the swing.

Do I need a swing whisperer now?

[Adam Young]

Sounds like it's time to make a swing change - put some hard work in. If you are pushing it, your path is too far to the right (from inside). If your face is even more open, then it will go further right.

Again, maybe strengthening the grip didn't work to close the face for whatever reason, but shutting the face at address might be a quick help until you ave ingrained something new and better. At least it will get the ball coming back to the left more. Other than that, working on a correct release of the clubhead (rotating through impact rather than staying open) can help you get the ball drawing back.

Long term, you are looking at neutralising your path, getting it more square rather than in to out. Without seeing the swing on video it is hard to suggest anything mechanical, although for now try and hit a few chip shots where the club is moving left through impact, work this feeling into a bigger swing.

Send us a vid of your swing from front on and more importantly down the line