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Posted

Completely boring golf club setup analysis follows:

I acquired a set of used 710 AP2s last summer from a buddy of mine who hangs around with a lot of low-level pros and is somewhat of a club ho.  They were fitted with KBS Tour Stiff shafts, standard loft and lie setup.  I hit them very consistently, nothing spectacular about the yardage, but loved the feel.  The ball flight is a little high, but manageable.

Late last fall my 8-iron lost a battle with a tree in an ill-fated attempt to hit a flipped-over backhanded shot that was resting against the tree's trunk.  I went to Dunns to get the shaft replaced, but they didn't stock it, so I was going to have to order the shaft, have it shipped, and pay for install.  Total cost was going to be around $50.  They had a good condition 710 AP2 8-iron in the used bucket with a TTDG S300 shaft in it for $25, so I bought that instead.

I immediately noticed that my 8i was now flying about the same distance as my 7i.  Odd, but I worked around it.

Went to Dunns this weekend with a bud who was looking to try new clubs, and I hit the 712 AP2s (along with the CBs and a few other sticks).  Tried the 712 AP2 with KBS Tour Stiff and with TTDG in a few heads.  The TTDG was getting a slightly lower launch angle, slightly higher ball speed, and more distance every time.

I thought this was pretty interesting, how two stiff steel shafts with only subtle differences could produce such a consistent difference in distance.  Particularly surprised that it was the TTDG that went further, given that it is a heavier, lower-launch shaft.  I'm naturally a high ball hitter.  The AP2 isn't exactly a high launch iron, but it does have some weight in the sole, more than what you'd find in a blade or more traditional forged CB.  I'm guessing that the slightly higher launch properties of the head, with the slightly lower launch properties of the shaft, produce a more ideal launch angle and smash factor.

Now I'm thinking about replacing my irons.  Stupid launch monitors....

Kevin

Titleist 910 D3 9.5* with ahina 72 X flex
Titleist 910F 13.5* with ahina 72 X flex
Adams Idea A12 Pro hybrid 18*; 23* with RIP S flex
Titleist 712 AP2 4-9 iron with KBS C-Taper, S+ flex
Titleist Vokey SM wedges 48*, 52*, 58*
Odyssey White Hot 2-ball mallet, center shaft, 34"

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Posted
Originally Posted by k-troop

Completely boring golf club setup analysis follows:

Don't sell yourself short!  That wasn't boring at all. :)

Your story jives with my limited understanding, as I have KBS specifically for the higher trajectory, since I tend to hit it a little low.

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Posted

That makes since to me. From my understanding, the KBS launches just a bit higher than the Dynamic Gold. I also read some where that while the KBS feel soft for their flex they actually play stiffer than their Dynamic Gold counterparts; the KBS rate a 6.0 while the S300 are a 5.8 (according to what I saw) so the slightly more flexible shaft could lead to a bit more distance as well.

If you already hit the ball high than the KBS may be too much and the lower launch of the DG's might be perfect for your swing.

Tristan Hilton

My Equipment: 
Titleist TSR2 Driver (Fujikura Pro 2.0 TS; 10.5°) · PXG 0211 FWs (Diamana S+ 60; 15° and 21°) · PXG 0211 Hybrid (MMT 80; 22°) · Edel SMS Irons (SteelFiber i95; 5-GW) · Edel SMS Pro Wedges (SteelFiber i110; 56°, 60°) · Edel Classic Blade Putter (32") · Maxfli Tour Ball · Pinned Prism Rangefinder · SuperStroke Grips · Flightscope Mevo · TRUE Linkswear Shoes · Vessel Player V Pro 

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Posted

I had a similar experience while killing time hitting different clubs at PGA SS with a bored salesman that didn't mind me asking to hit just about everything on the fitting carts. Any time we put a KBS Tour in the mix my numbers went down. I really didn't like the feel from the first hit but on some carts they didn't have more than a few shaft selections. No matter what I tried the S300 felt and performed best for me.

Dave :-)

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Posted
I guess my surprise is that there wasn't a lot of difference in launch angle--maybe 1*. But the ball speed was up with the TTDG and the distance was more.

Kevin

Titleist 910 D3 9.5* with ahina 72 X flex
Titleist 910F 13.5* with ahina 72 X flex
Adams Idea A12 Pro hybrid 18*; 23* with RIP S flex
Titleist 712 AP2 4-9 iron with KBS C-Taper, S+ flex
Titleist Vokey SM wedges 48*, 52*, 58*
Odyssey White Hot 2-ball mallet, center shaft, 34"

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Note: This thread is 4731 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

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    • Please see this topic for updated information:
    • When you've been teaching golf as long as I have, you're going to find that you can teach some things better than you previously had, and you're probably going to find some things that you taught incorrectly. I don't see that as a bad thing — what would be worse is refusing to adapt and grow given new information. I've always said that my goal with my instruction isn't to be right, but it's to get things right. To that end, I'm about five years late in issuing a public proclamation on something… When I first got my GEARS system, I immediately looked at the golf swings of the dozens and dozens of Tour players for which I suddenly had full 3D data. I created a huge spreadsheet showing how their bodies moved, how the club moved, at various points in the swing. I mapped knee and elbow angles, hand speeds, shoulder turns and pelvis turns… etc. I re-considered what I thought I knew about the golf swing as performed by the best players. One of those things dated back to the earliest days: that you extend (I never taught "straighten" and would avoid using that word unless in the context of saying "don't fully straighten") the trail knee/leg in the backswing. I was mislead by 2D photos from less-than-ideal camera angles — the trail leg rotates a bit during the backswing, and so when observing trail knee flex should also use a camera that moves to stay perpendicular to the plane of the ankle/knee/hip joint. We have at least two topics here on this (here and here; both of which I'll be updating after publishing this) where @mvmac and I advise golfers to extend the trail knee. Learning that this was not right is one of the reasons I'm glad to have a 3D system, as most golfers generally preserve the trail knee flex throughout the backswing. Data Here's a video showing an iron and a driver of someone who has won the career slam: Here's what the graph of his right knee flex looks like. The solid lines I've positioned at the top of the backswing (GEARS aligns both swings at impact, the dashed line). Address is to the right, of course, and the graph shows knee flex from the two swings above. The data (17.56° and 23.20°) shows where this player is in both swings (orange being the yellow iron swing, pink the blue driver swing). You can see that this golfer extends his trail knee 2-3°… before bending it even more than that through the late backswing and early downswing. Months ago I created a quick Instagram video showing the trail knee flex in the backswing of several players (see the top for the larger number): Erik J. Barzeski (@iacas) • Instagram reel GEARS shares expert advice on golf swing technique, focusing on the critical backswing phase. Tour winners and major champions reveal the key to a precise and powerful swing, highlighting the importance of... Here are a few more graphs. Two LIV players and major champions: Two PGA Tour winners: Two women's #1 ranked players: Two more PGA Tour winners (one a major champ): Two former #1s, the left one being a woman, the right a man, with a driver: Two more PGA Tour players: You'll notice a trend: they almost all maintain roughly the same flex throughout their backswing and downswing. The Issues with Extending the Trail Knee You can play good golf extending (again, not "straightening") the trail knee. Some Tour players do. But, as with many things, if 95 out of 100 Tour players do it, you're most likely better off doing similarly to what they do. So, what are the issues with extending the trail knee in the backswing? To list a few: Pelvic Depth and Rotation Quality Suffers When the trail knee extends, the trail leg often acts like an axle on the backswing, with the pelvis rotating around the leg and the trail hip joint. 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    • Day 6 - 2025-12-25 10 minutes of swing work on the mat and net. Focus on turn and weight shift.
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