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Posted

I live in the southeast of the Denver metro area. Been playing 14 years pretty much self-taught. Current index is 16.5. It's been down to 12.5 18 months ago but I didn't play much last year. The courses around here have outdoor ranges, and I don't think any of them use video analysis. And I'm sorry, I don't feel comfortable asking any these questions: http://thesandtrap.com/b/playing_tips/the_instructor_quiz_nine_questions_youve_gotta_ask . Besides, golf instructor has been a profession for, well decades before I was born, and the "old" answers to the linked questions hasn't stopped those instructors from helping people get better at golf.

There is a nearby course (Murphy Creek) that has terrific practice facilities. And they have a few instructors. At the moment I'm leaning toward calling up the pro shop and just making an appointment. Well, what are my other options?


Posted
I wouldn't feel comfortable asking a stranger all of those questions either because I'd be afraid that they'd come across a little "accusatory." But, remember, it is your golf game and your money. If you want to avoid the questions and the worry that would come with not getting them answered, the easy solution is to make sure you find a 5sk instructor. Can't find one nearby? Find one here: thegolfevolution.com (evolvr online instruction)
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Posted

Sorry to say there are no 5sk instructors near me, at least according to Google. As for online instruction, I learn best, and faster, with immediate feedback. No use going to the range thinking I'm doing what the "online instructors" are telling me I need to do, only to find several hours later that I wasn't even close.


Posted
Originally Posted by fersman4

I live in the southeast of the Denver metro area. Been playing 14 years pretty much self-taught. Current index is 16.5. It's been down to 12.5 18 months ago but I didn't play much last year. The courses around here have outdoor ranges, and I don't think any of them use video analysis. And I'm sorry, I don't feel comfortable asking any these questions: http://thesandtrap.com/b/playing_tips/the_instructor_quiz_nine_questions_youve_gotta_ask. Besides, golf instructor has been a profession for, well decades before I was born, and the "old" answers to the linked questions hasn't stopped those instructors from helping people get better at golf.

There is a nearby course (Murphy Creek) that has terrific practice facilities. And they have a few instructors. At the moment I'm leaning toward calling up the pro shop and just making an appointment. Well, what are my other options?

I understand that you don't feel comfortable asking those questions, but they will help you figure out if the guy is a quality instructor or not. And some of the "old" answers to those questions have stopped those instructors from helping people get better at golf. Take question one for example; if your instructor can't answer that then it'll be very hard for him to figure out what you are doing at impact that leads to the miss you want to eliminate. The bottom line is that it is your hard earned money that you are spending and you have the right to make sure that you get the most bang for your buck.

I know that you kind of shot down the online option, but evolvr really is a great service and one you maybe should reconsider. Their students get better and they do it quickly.

Outside of sitting down and talking to potential instructors and asking those questions or going through evolvr, it's just a gamble. You may get lucky and find a great instructor that knows his stuff and gets you better quick, or you may end up with one of the many poor instructors out there and just throw your money away.

  • Upvote 1

Tristan Hilton

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Posted
Originally Posted by fersman4

Sorry to say there are no 5sk instructors near me, at least according to Google. As for online instruction, I learn best, and faster, with immediate feedback. No use going to the range thinking I'm doing what the "online instructors" are telling me I need to do, only to find several hours later that I wasn't even close.

That's perfectly understandable.  However, if you are not willing to ask potential instructors those questions, and aren't willing/able to find an instructor that you know already knows the correct answer to those questions, then you are running the risk of picking a crappy instructor.

I mean, what good is immediate feedback if the feedback is wrong?  Know what I mean?  Doesn't mean that all non 5sk/evolvr instructors are bad, but unless you are willing to talk with them beforehand, how are you going to know?

Just FYI, I am an evolvr student.  Started sometime last year (August maybe??) and immediately started hitting the ball better.  Handicap started dropping in January and hasn't stopped. :)  Was 10 and is 7.7 now, and still trending down.  Just sayin' ...

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Posted

Well you all have given me something to think about. It used to be the case that if you wanted to get a qualified instructor, you needed to find a PGA Professional. Now it seems that's not good enough anymore?

I'm still not sure what to do about question nine. That is to say, I don't know who around here would use video. As far as I can tell all the instructors around here instruct on golf course driving ranges, and I've never seen any recording equipment. And what about the launch monitors and all those new gadgets that measure spin and angle of attack and stuff? That seems like indoor tools. I'm starting to wonder in Denver is a "golf instruction desert".


Posted
Quote:
Originally Posted by fersman4 View Post

Well you all have given me something to think about. It used to be the case that if you wanted to get a qualified instructor, you needed to find a PGA Professional. Now it seems that's not good enough anymore?

Just because somebody is a "PGA Professional" doesn't mean that they are a quality instructor. Some are, some aren't. And there are some guys, like mvmac (Mike) who are great instructors but not a PGA Professional. That's why things like that instructor quiz are helpful, because you get to see whether or not your guy actually knows his stuff or not.

Quote:
I'm still not sure what to do about question nine. That is to say, I don't know who around here would use video. As far as I can tell all the instructors around here instruct on golf course driving ranges, and I've never seen any recording equipment. And what about the launch monitors and all those new gadgets that measure spin and angle of attack and stuff? That seems like indoor tools. I'm starting to wonder in Denver is a "golf instruction desert".

I'm sure that somebody around there uses video, it's not really all that uncommon and doesn't take a huge setup. There are a lot of small cameras that shoot video that works great for the golf swing and while a tripod is nice, it's not a must so they could be using it and you just not notice.

Tristan Hilton

My Equipment: 
Titleist TSR2 Driver (Fujikura Pro 2.0 TS; 10.5°) · PXG 0211 FWs (Diamana S+ 60; 15° and 21°) · PXG 0211 Hybrid (MMT 80; 22°) · Edel SMS Irons (SteelFiber i95; 5-GW) · Edel SMS Pro Wedges (SteelFiber i110; 56°, 60°) · Edel Classic Blade Putter (32") · Maxfli Tour Ball · Pinned Prism Rangefinder · SuperStroke Grips · Flightscope Mevo · TRUE Linkswear Shoes · Vessel Player V Pro 

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Posted
Originally Posted by fersman4

Well you all have given me something to think about. It used to be the case that if you wanted to get a qualified instructor, you needed to find a PGA Professional. Now it seems that's not good enough anymore?

I'm still not sure what to do about question nine. That is to say, I don't know who around here would use video. As far as I can tell all the instructors around here instruct on golf course driving ranges, and I've never seen any recording equipment. And what about the launch monitors and all those new gadgets that measure spin and angle of attack and stuff? That seems like indoor tools. I'm starting to wonder in Denver is a "golf instruction desert".

Again, I'll say I agree with you about the questions.  Call me a wimp or whatever, but I wouldn't feel comfortable asking them either.  They're not interview questions, they're test questions.  But you should at least interview them in some way, shape, or form.  Ask them for qualifications, ask them for their philosophy, and maybe you can determine from that.

Or, worst case, sign up for one lesson only and go home and research whether or not that info seems solid.

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Note: This thread is 4574 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

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  • Posts

    • In driving a car you have all sorts of random or variable parts, though. Different speeds, corners, conditions, size of turns… even different cars and sizes, different traffic and laws (lights, signs, etc.). I don't think I've seen anyone doing "block practice" to practice the same exact turn 100 times, then trying it in the real world.
    • IMHO, block practice is good. Any new motor pattern or a 'move' has to be committed to muscle memory and be reproducable at command without conscious thought as the final goal. I don't see how this is that much different than learning how to drive a car, or let's say how to handle the steering for example. One must do it enough times and then also do it in different situations to commit to all layers of brain - judgment of demand, decision making, judgment of response and finally execution. Unless each layer is familiar of each of their role in the specific motor move, it is not truly learned and you will simply fall back to the original pattern. I think the random practice is simply committing the learned pattern to different scenarios or intervals of time to replicate in the real world (actual rounds). It breeds further familiarity learned from block practice. Steer the car a hundred times to learn the move (block) and then drive the car all over town to make it real world (random) to a level of maturity. I don't see how block and random have to be in conflict with each other.  
    • Yea, I think the first thing is to define block, variable, and random practice with regards to golf.  The easiest one might be in practicing distance control for putting. Block practice would be just hitting 50 putts from 5 feet, then 50 putts from 10 ft then 50 putts from 15 ft. While random practice would having a different distance putt for every putt.  In terms of learning a new motor pattern, like let's say you want to make sure the clubhead goes outside the hands in the backswing. I am not sure how to structure random practice. Maybe block practice is just making the same 100 movements over and over again. I don't get how a random practice is structured for something like learning a new motor pattern for the golf swing.  Like, if a NFL QB needs to work on their throw. They want to get the ball higher above the shoulder. How would random practice be structured? Would they just need someone there to say, yes or no for feedback? That way the QB can go through an assortment of passing drills and throws trying to get the wright throwing motion?  For me, how do you structure the feedback and be time effective. Let's say you want to work on the club path in the backswing. You go out to the course to get some random practice. Do you need to set up the camera at each spot, check after each shot to make it random?  I know that feedback is also a HUGE part of learning. I could say, I went to the golf course and worked on my swing. If I made 40 golf swings on the course, what if none of them were good reps because I couldn't get any feedback? What if I regressed? 
    • I found it odd that both Drs. (Raymond Prior and Greg Rose) in their separate videos gave the same exact math problem (23 x 12), and both made the point of comparing block practice to solving the same exact math problem (23 x 12) over and over again. But I've made the point that when you are learning your multiplication tables… you do a bunch of similar multiplications over and over again. You do 7 x 8, then 9 x 4, then 3 x 5, then 2 x 6, and so on. So, I think when golf instructors talk about block practice, they're really not understanding what it actually is, and they're assuming that someone trying to kinda do the same thing is block practice, but when Dr. Raymond Prior said on my podcast that what I was describing was variable practice… then… well, that changes things. It changes the results of everything you've heard about how "block" practice is bad (or ineffective).
    • Day 121 12-11 Practice session this morning. Slowing the swing down. 3/4 swings, Getting to lead side better, trying to feel more in sync with swing. Hit foam balls. Good session overall. 
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