"Hey! While we're young!" - USGA Pace of Play

[0ldblu3]

I think the campaign is fine and actually a pretty bold move. Coupled with "Tee it Forward" things will eventually improve. What probably won't improve is Anika's delivery...wow, that woman is wooden. But good for her for participating.

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by minitour

While we're at it, get rid of the two-person carts and get something like a segway for each player.  No more waiting for your cart partner.

Which is part of the education issue.  Players who use a cart correctly are the fastest players on any course.  Anyone who disputes that doesn't know what he's talking about.  Moving 3 times as fast as a walker, one of my best friends and I with a single cart can leave a single walker behind without even being rushed.

By the way, a Segway costs just about as much as a cart but you need twice as many to handle the same number of players.  Dumb move financially.

[BugDude]

I typically play 18 holes by myself in the evenings in 2 hours 15 minutes.  That's not rushing or trying to play speed golf, that's just playing.  Hit and roll.  With 2 people, usually 3 hours tops.  With 4 people, I could understand 4 hours, but with the guys I play with I doubt it would be over 3 and a half.

I was playing with a gentleman today in his 80s, and there was a 2-some in front of us holding us up all day long.  I've never seen anyone take so long to hit a golf ball.  Literally 9 practice swings.  Stand there over it like a statue, look up again, back down, up, back down, then hit, stand there and watch it, mosey back to the cart wiping off the club and putting it back, getting sand and filling the divot like he was making art, etc.  His partner driving the cart would park 10 yards from his ball, walk over, do the same thing stuff as above, walk back over and change clubs, start over, etc.  It was painful.

[ToblaT]

Originally Posted by Fourputt

By the way, a Segway costs just about as much as a cart but you need twice as many to handle the same number of players.  Dumb move financially.

Not entirely true. While a cart costs the same to buy and you only need half as many, you will also get less money from renting it out. Assuming a Segway costs at least close (closer than half) of a cart to rent, you will be making more money with them as long as people rent one cart for two people rather than one each person. It might also speeds up play for the average, or at least many, cart users since they rarely use them in the most effective way. The biggest draw-back with a Segway is the fact that many, if not most, people (older people, like golfers, especially) find them pretty scary and hard to use comfortably and will probably never rent one over a cart or maybe even over walking if a cart isn't available.

[sacm3bill]

Originally Posted by cutshot878

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slice of Life

Thank God. I don't understand how it can take some people so long to golf. I was playing 9 with a friend of mine and his sister, and we finished in just under an hour and a half. We weren't rushing, and none of us are great. Granted, I can understand walking takes a bit longer, but you should still be able to finish a round in under 4 hours.

Walking can actually be faster than using a golf cart, especially if there's nobody on the course, say late evening...

Only if you have a clueless twosome sharing a cart and not using it properly. Other than that, if there's no one on the course holding you up, the only limit on your pace is how fast you can get from one shot to the next, and walking to your next shot is certainly slower than taking a cart to it.

[cutshot878]

Originally Posted by mgd150

This is the sort of thing that causes pace of play issues:

In the Army we used to call a bunch of guys standing around doing nothing, a real "Cluster F*#@%&**.  Oh the horror, the horror

[cutshot878]

Originally Posted by sacm3bill

Only if you have a clueless twosome sharing a cart and not using it properly. Other than that, if there's no one on the course holding you up, the only limit on your pace is how fast you can get from one shot to the next, and walking to your next shot is certainly slower than taking a cart to it.

There is this thing called a cart path. It doesn't run up the middle of the fairway. On a decent course, the paths are paved or unpaved and situated laterally to the fairway. I can play a lot faster than any twosome in a golf cart, even a highly skilled twosome of scratch golfers or the head pro and his assistant. 5 years. No twosome in a cart has ever caught me. Sometimes, just to give them a chance to catch up I will play 3 or 4 balls. The cart riders still don't come close. Cart golf is slower. It's not "real" golf. Golf is a good "walk" spoiled. Not a good ride in a golf cart spoiled.

[0ldblu3]

Originally Posted by ToblaT

Not entirely true. While a cart costs the same to buy and you only need half as many, you will also get less money from renting it out. Assuming a Segway costs at least close (closer than half) of a cart to rent, you will be making more money with them as long as people rent one cart for two people rather than one each person. It might also speeds up play for the average, or at least many, cart users since they rarely use them in the most effective way. The biggest draw-back with a Segway is the fact that many, if not most, people (older people, like golfers, especially) find them pretty scary and hard to use comfortably and will probably never rent one over a cart or maybe even over walking if a cart isn't available.

A Segway is electric, so this is an option for much of the country, but my understanding is that areas with high temperature variability do not support electric carts very well.I know that in Northern Virginia electric is not a good option because the hot/cold cycles kill long term battery life and cause them to cost more long term than gas. I do remember that John Daly stated in his golf book that single size golf carts ought to be the norm. I wonder what is running at the Lion's Den?

Back on topic...Paula Creamer and Butch Harmon do the best job in these commercials so far. At least what she was doing was recongnizable as Rodney. And the first scene with Butch talking about her grip pressure was funny.

[sacm3bill]

Originally Posted by cutshot878

Quote:

Originally Posted by sacm3bill

Only if you have a clueless twosome sharing a cart and not using it properly. Other than that, if there's no one on the course holding you up, the only limit on your pace is how fast you can get from one shot to the next, and walking to your next shot is certainly slower than taking a cart to it.

There is this thing called a cart path. It doesn't run up the middle of the fairway. On a decent course, the paths are paved or unpaved and situated laterally to the fairway. I can play a lot faster than any twosome in a golf cart, even a highly skilled twosome of scratch golfers or the head pro and his assistant. 5 years. No twosome in a cart has ever caught me. Sometimes, just to give them a chance to catch up I will play 3 or 4 balls. The cart riders still don't come close. Cart golf is slower. It's not "real" golf. Golf is a good "walk" spoiled. Not a good ride in a golf cart spoiled.

You've been using the term "cart golf", but it's now apparent that what you meant is "cart path only golf".  Yes, that is slower than walking. I agree. Most courses are not cart path only though, or are only that way when conditions require it.

[MS256]

Originally Posted by cutshot878

There is this thing called a cart path. It doesn't run up the middle of the fairway. On a decent course, the paths are paved or unpaved and situated laterally to the fairway. I can play a lot faster than any twosome in a golf cart, even a highly skilled twosome of scratch golfers or the head pro and his assistant. 5 years. No twosome in a cart has ever caught me. Sometimes, just to give them a chance to catch up I will play 3 or 4 balls. The cart riders still don't come close. Cart golf is slower. It's not "real" golf. Golf is a good "walk" spoiled. Not a good ride in a golf cart spoiled.

I would take that bet anytime someone wants to make it. Not a snowball's chance in Hell someone walking is going to play faster than me in a cart.

[trackster]

Originally Posted by MS256

I would take that bet anytime someone wants to make it. Not a snowball's chance in Hell someone walking is going to play faster than me in a cart.

He was talking about a group of two not a single.  If the logistics of a course are not very good I could see a walker playing faster than a group of riders.  My home course has some low spots that get extremely wet.  On this holes "cart path only" rules are enforced very strictly.  If you pulled your drive on one of these holes you would have to walk an excess of almost 100 yards sideways to get to your ball from where the ball is relative to the cart path.  If you are walking 200 yards (back and forth) sideways to hit one shot, I am going to smoke you on total time to play the hole if I am walking.

Pace of play is correlated with how well you play.  Here is an experiment.    Take a 1 minute practice routine on hole one before you tee off.  Air swing at a tee.  Walk up to the 150 to go mark and drop a ball.  Take another 1 minute practice routine.  Take an air swing at this ball.  Pick it up and drop it on the green about 20 feet from the pin.  Putt out the ball as you would do normally.  Now we can all agree that a one minute practice routine is extremely slow.  But if you repeat this process for all 18 holes I guarantee this will be your fastest round of the year.  The fastest play is tee to fairway to green.  Its the time spent searching for balls that adds up.

[MS256]

Originally Posted by trackster

He was talking about a group of two not a single.

And I'll still take the bet...And it won't be a close race.

[bplewis24]

Originally Posted by cutshot878

There is this thing called a cart path. It doesn't run up the middle of the fairway. On a decent course, the paths are paved or unpaved and situated laterally to the fairway. I can play a lot faster than any twosome in a golf cart, even a highly skilled twosome of scratch golfers or the head pro and his assistant. 5 years. No twosome in a cart has ever caught me. Sometimes, just to give them a chance to catch up I will play 3 or 4 balls. The cart riders still don't come close. Cart golf is slower. It's not "real" golf. Golf is a good "walk" spoiled. Not a good ride in a golf cart spoiled.

Originally Posted by MS256

And I'll still take the bet...And it won't be a close race.

Agree.  I'll place a large amount of money that he couldn't play faster than me and a cart-mate, assuming it's not "cart path only."

I'm a pretty quick player, and I recall two times playing a round paired as a single with a quick twosome in a cart, and they were waiting for me most of the time.  Especially if the course is relatively long.

[David in FL]

There is this thing called a cart path. It doesn't run up the middle of the fairway. On a decent course, the paths are paved or unpaved and situated laterally to the fairway. I can play a lot faster than any twosome in a golf cart, even a highly skilled twosome of scratch golfers or the head pro and his assistant. 5 years. No twosome in a cart has ever caught me. Sometimes, just to give them a chance to catch up I will play 3 or 4 balls. The cart riders still don't come close. Cart golf is slower. It's not "real" golf. Golf is a good "walk" spoiled. Not a good ride in a golf cart spoiled.

You realize that the cart doesn't need to stay on the cart path, right? A good pace for my buddy and I is anything under 2:15. If you're faster than that, my hat's off to you.

[MS256]

When I was a club member there was a daily money game at 12:30 and everybody that played in it had a cart except one person that preferred to walk.

He was a very fast walker and a pretty good player and he did certain things like teeing off first so he could start his walk down the side before the rest of us hit and leaving a green after putting out instead of waiting for everyone to finish putting. Even doing those things we often told him to jump in the cart with his bag between the 9th and 10th holes and between the 2nd and 3rd holes because it was a pretty good hike between those holes.

He never did slow us down enough to be any sort of a problem (even for the cranky players) but it was very obvious that it was totally impossible for a walker to play faster than people in carts, all other things being equal, no matter what he did.

[Golfer6760]

Played today. 1st group off @ 7am. Keep in mind I'm on a 9 hole course. We played the front in 1hr 52min. There were 4 groups waiting to tee off on the 1st hole yet when we made the turn. We finished our round @ 11:55am. Almost 5 hrs total . The back 9 couldn't have been any slower. After my round I looked at the pro shop tee sheet and there were 17 foursomes out for the day starting @ 7am. The pro was riding around in a cart shagging lost headcovers via phone calls all morning.

IMO 14 foursomes @ 10 min intervals should be put out in 9 holes. The pro said today they work with an 8 min interval system. No wonder the course gets bogged down.

HEY GLEN NAGER HOW ABOUT EDUCATING GOLF COURSE MANAGEMENT AND HALF THE USELESS CLUB PROS ABOUT FAST PLAY WITH COOL TV ADS WITH ARNIE AND STOP BLAMING THE POOR 20 HANDICAPPER.

OVERCROWDED COURSES ARE A HUGE BUT IGNORED PROBLEM

[iacas]

Originally Posted by Golfer6760

Played today. 1st group off @ 7am. Keep in mind I'm on a 9 hole course. We played the front in 1hr 52min.

FWIW, that's not exactly speedy if you were first out.

Originally Posted by Golfer6760

HEY GLEN NAGER HOW ABOUT EDUCATING GOLF COURSE MANAGEMENT AND HALF THE USELESS CLUB PROS ABOUT FAST PLAY WITH COOL TV ADS WITH ARNIE AND STOP BLAMING THE POOR 20 HANDICAPPER.

OVERCROWDED COURSES ARE A HUGE BUT IGNORED PROBLEM

Do you disagree that if everyone played faster, eight- to ten-minute spacing in tee times wouldn't be a problem?

If four golfers begin hitting their shots on a typical par four at 9:00, by 9:08 the next group should be able to hit because the first group should have taken about 2 minutes to tee off, four minutes to drive to and find their golf balls, and two more minutes to hit.

Additionally, golfers are put out more frequently because golfers are slow. If rounds took less time golfers could be sent out later in the day.

Can courses do things, too? Yes. But the onus is on golfers themselves. Eight-minute spacing in tee times don't make people read their five-foot putt for double-bogey putt from both sides of the hole.

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by cutshot878

Quote:

Originally Posted by sacm3bill

Only if you have a clueless twosome sharing a cart and not using it properly. Other than that, if there's no one on the course holding you up, the only limit on your pace is how fast you can get from one shot to the next, and walking to your next shot is certainly slower than taking a cart to it.

There is this thing called a cart path. It doesn't run up the middle of the fairway. On a decent course, the paths are paved or unpaved and situated laterally to the fairway. I can play a lot faster than any twosome in a golf cart, even a highly skilled twosome of scratch golfers or the head pro and his assistant. 5 years. No twosome in a cart has ever caught me. Sometimes, just to give them a chance to catch up I will play 3 or 4 balls. The cart riders still don't come close. Cart golf is slower. It's not "real" golf. Golf is a good "walk" spoiled. Not a good ride in a golf cart spoiled.

You still don't know what you're talking about.  What you describe is not a "decent course", it's a course managed for slow play.  I've played a LOT of good courses in the last 40 years, and a large majority required carts on path only around the tees and greens.  Any other policy is mostly just stupid.