Scotland Votes No on Independence

[misty_mountainhop]

I was going to ask the same thing. And why stop there? Maybe he can be independent as a town, too. And heck, maybe his household should secede and form their own country?

:P

Bingo.

It's not about a revolution, it's about having an opportunity to strike out on your own and control your own destiny or staying within the sheltered cocoon of a caretaker. I would always choose the former.

So it's every man/woman for themselves? Hang on, I'll go get tooled up. Being isolationist these days makes little sense.

Sure! As an individual! I stand alone, I'm self employed, I make my own money and provide for my own family, I choose not to vote because nobody has yet given me confidence to vote for them, I pay taxes because I have to, not because I want to! ...

See above. IMO (and this is not personal), the fact you don't vote is a disgrace. Pretty much. So many people bitch and whine about politicians and yet don't do anything about it. They don't even vote when given the chance. Pretty poor. You pay taxes so that the State apparatus functions in everyone's interests . If everyone took the "Why should I pay for something I may not use??" attitude, we'd all be going to Hell in a handcart and we're back to Neanderthal Devil take the hindmost stuff. I thought we'd outgrown that nonsense.

....We are far stronger as a union than we are as independent states.  Scotland is far stronger being part of 35 65 Million than they ever would be as part of 5 million.  Scotland has a soul. Scotland has an identity.  No one can take that from them.  But being part of the UK makes them much stronger.

Spot on.

My take on the Scottish referendum is that, sure, Scotland could be a relatively successful little country, ultimately. But how long and what would the short-medium term hit be? Salmond and the SNP didn't answer any of the big questions - currency, EU, NATO, UN, borders, defence, education, health funding, decreasing oil revenues in a World inexorably moving away from fossil fuels etc etc etc etc. This is the man whom not long ago trumpeted the Scottish financial sector, said the Pound Sterling was a "millstone around the neck of Scotland", lauded the Euro zone, wanted an independent Scotland to be like Iceland/Ireland (although Ireland is showing strong signs of recovery now) etc etc. All of that was conveniently ignored during the recent referendum run-up and the SNP just ignored anything put to them that they didn't like. Despite all of that, 45% still voted for independence although there were a lot of Labour voters who thought they could forge a Labour Utopia in a new Scotland and so went that way.

No-one thinks the Scots don't have an identity etc and no-one is oppressing them. It would have been a first (I think) for a mature democracy to have fragmented for, basically, no reason at all. Salmond and the SNP have been chasing this dream for decades and all for what? He's an egotist (like most politicians) and wanted to go down in history. He's also been playing on the back of one of the hardest global recessions in a long time and trying to pin that all on 'Thatcher' and the current U.K. political scene. He only needed to get lucky once - fortunately, it didn't happen - and now, hopefully, that agenda will die away for the foreseeable future. "You'll never take our Freedom!"? - grow up you tiresome little man.

[Hardballs]

See above. IMO (and this is not personal), the fact you don't vote is a disgrace. Pretty much. So many people bitch and whine about politicians and yet don't do anything about it. They don't even vote when given the chance. Pretty poor. You pay taxes so that the State apparatus functions in everyone's interests . If everyone took the "Why should I pay for something I may not use??" attitude, we'd all be going to Hell in a handcart and we're back to Neanderthal Devil take the hindmost stuff. I thought we'd outgrown that nonsense.

When a man/woman stands up and inspires me to vote of course I would do! But that person isn't around, I've looked for them! I don't begrudge paying taxes, it's just that I know first hand how much of them are wasted! I live in hope that one day the uk will be ruled by a government with plain old common sense, showing compassion when needed and making tough decisions for the good of the whole country, not the corporate fat cats who keep getting richer! Until then, I will save my vote!

[jamo]

I found this analysis below interesting, as my assumption was that Scotland was pulling a "Braveheart" thing- fierce independence, self-reliance, etc.  Apparently, quite a bit of the motivation was that England was too right-wing. Wow. PowerLine is a reliable conservative site that always has an interesting and well-informed take on current events. [URL=http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2014/09/scottish-independence-from-britain-and-british-independence-from-scotland.php]http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2014/09/scottish-independence-from-britain-and-british-independence-from-scotland.php[/URL]

That's not a secret. Scotland is both farther left than the U.K. as a whole (and particularly the current administration) and wealthier (by GDP per capita) than the U.K. as a whole. Plenty has been written about that.

[RandallT]

That's not a secret. Scotland is both farther left than the U.K. as a whole (and particularly the current administration) and wealthier (by GDP per capita) than the U.K. as a whole. Plenty has been written about that.

Yah I didn't mean that I thought was much of a secret and that others weren't aware of that, but that I had been ignorant and had not paid much attention over the years to UK politics- other than to know that they are generally quite a bit further to the left than the US. My ignorance may change soon, as it seems our family may be moving to London for a 3 year assignment. Hmmm, always new opportunities and experiences to look forward to!

[boogielicious]

Vote or no vote, I want to get to Scotland someday.  It looks absolutely lovely.  I'm glad they didn't separate with such a close vote.  I think that it would have caused some internal unrest.  If it had been 80% for separation, then the majority would have spoken.  But at close to 50/50, it may have caused problems even if it passed.

[misty_mountainhop]

Quote:

That's not a secret. Scotland is both farther left than the U.K. as a whole (and particularly the current administration) and wealthier (by GDP per capita) than the U.K. as a whole. Plenty has been written about that.

Where does it say in that linked article that Scotland is wealthier "by GDP per capita" than the rest of the U.K.? Plenty may indeed have been written about this sort of thing but the only truism that's come from it is that there's no real agreement on this.

Vote or no vote, I want to get to Scotland someday.  It looks absolutely lovely.  I'm glad they didn't separate with such a close vote.  I think that it would have caused some internal unrest.  If it had been 80% for separation, then the majority would have spoken.  But at close to 50/50, it may have caused problems even if it passed.

Definitely go there sometime. It's beautiful. The golf's not bad either...

[Gunther]

Yah I didn't mean that I thought was much of a secret and that others weren't aware of that, but that I had been ignorant and had not paid much attention over the years to UK politics- other than to know that they are generally quite a bit further to the left than the US. My ignorance may change soon, as it seems our family may be moving to London for a 3 year assignment. Hmmm, always new opportunities and experiences to look forward to!

That's awesome! Enjoy it! I love it over there.

[jamo]

Where does it say in that linked article that Scotland is wealthier "by GDP per capita" than the rest of the U.K.?

It doesn't. I looked it up. Wikipedia could have been wrong, I suppose.

[boogielicious]

Quote:

Originally Posted by misty_mountainhop

Where does it say in that linked article that Scotland is wealthier "by GDP per capita" than the rest of the U.K.?

It doesn't. I looked it up. Wikipedia could have been wrong, I suppose.

This was reported last week.  It was related to average salaries per capita.