Bounce

[natureboy]

It depends on your playing style. Edel, which I have not done, spends a lot of time with the player to determine how they use their wedges.  But the grind and camber do change things a bit.

Example.  I have two Vokey 58 wedges, and SM4 58.12 and and SM5 58.11.  The 58-12 has the M-grind with high bounce and relief about half way back on the sole (left photo).  The SM5 has a smooth camber from front to back.  They both have almost the same effective bounce but play differently with pitch and sand shots.  The SM4 grabs a bit more in rough but bounces nicely in sand.  I don't have to open it up much in sand.  The SM5 glides really well in the rough and makes pitching easier.  In sand however, I have to open it up more otherwise it slides too easily through the sand and the ball goes farther than I want.  That is why the grind and bounce need to match what you want it to do.

Your experience with the SM5 would imply that wider sole 'glides' through the sand better?

Confused by your opening the club to get less glide? Isn't the camber intended to keep the leading edge the same height when you open the club or is the camber progressive so that the more you open it you get slightly less bounce? Or are there different cambers to do each one?

[boogielicious]

Quote:

Originally Posted by boogielicious

It depends on your playing style. Edel, which I have not done, spends a lot of time with the player to determine how they use their wedges.  But the grind and camber do change things a bit.

Example.  I have two Vokey 58 wedges, and SM4 58.12 and and SM5 58.11.  The 58-12 has the M-grind with high bounce and relief about half way back on the sole (left photo).  The SM5 has a smooth camber from front to back.  They both have almost the same effective bounce but play differently with pitch and sand shots.  The SM4 grabs a bit more in rough but bounces nicely in sand.  I don't have to open it up much in sand.  The SM5 glides really well in the rough and makes pitching easier.  In sand however, I have to open it up more otherwise it slides too easily through the sand and the ball goes farther than I want.  That is why the grind and bounce need to match what you want it to do.

Your experience with the SM5 would imply that wider sole 'glides' through the sand better?

Confused by your opening the club to get less glide? Isn't the camber intended to keep the leading edge the same height when you open the club or is the camber progressive so that the more you open it you get slightly less bounce? Or are there different cambers to do each one?

Heel grinds keep the bounce relatively the same as you open up the club, like on the SM4.  The cambered sole on the SM5 doesn't have as much heel relief, so the club looks to have more bounce as I open it.  If I put it on a table and look at the bounce from table level, there is more sole for the sand to go through as I open up the face.

[natureboy]

Heel grinds keep the bounce relatively the same as you open up the club, like on the SM4.  The cambered sole on the SM5 doesn't have as much heel relief, so the club looks to have more bounce as I open it.  If I put it on a table and look at the bounce from table level, there is more sole for the sand to go through as I open up the face.

Isn't the camber keeping the point of contact of the sole with the ground relatively constant as the face opens? This to my mind is preserving the 'effective loft' or the area of the triangle between the leading edge the ground and the point of contact on the sole.

[boogielicious]

Quote:

Originally Posted by boogielicious

Heel grinds keep the bounce relatively the same as you open up the club, like on the SM4.  The cambered sole on the SM5 doesn't have as much heel relief, so the club looks to have more bounce as I open it.  If I put it on a table and look at the bounce from table level, there is more sole for the sand to go through as I open up the face.

Isn't the camber keeping the point of contact of the sole with the ground relatively constant as the face opens? This to my mind is preserving the 'effective loft' or the area of the triangle between the leading edge the ground and the point of contact on the sole.

Yes.  But as you rotate the head, the length of sole increases with respect to the path the club is taking.  Heel relief removes some of the bounce that would interact with the sand, camber doesn't.  It is easier to see if you take your wedge and put it on a table.  Look at the sole at table level and rotate the head.  You will see how the amount of sole changes with rotation.

[natureboy]

Yes.  But as you rotate the head, the length of sole increases with respect to the path the club is taking.  Heel relief removes some of the bounce that would interact with the sand, camber doesn't.  It is easier to see if you take your wedge and put it on a table.  Look at the sole at table level and rotate the head.  You will see how the amount of sole changes with rotation.

So by opening your club that had heel relief, you were making your wedge more of a 'digger' in the sand?

[boogielicious]

Quote:

Originally Posted by boogielicious

Yes.  But as you rotate the head, the length of sole increases with respect to the path the club is taking.  Heel relief removes some of the bounce that would interact with the sand, camber doesn't.  It is easier to see if you take your wedge and put it on a table.  Look at the sole at table level and rotate the head.  You will see how the amount of sole changes with rotation.

So by opening your club that had heel relief, you were making your wedge more of a 'digger' in the sand?

Opposite.  Heel relief removes bounce when the face is open.  No heel relief increases bounce when the face it open.

[natureboy]

Opposite.  Heel relief removes bounce when the face is open.  No heel relief increases bounce when the face it open.

I think I was correct. Opening the face brings the heel relief into play so there is less effective bounce and the club will glide / skip through less and dig / bite more which will reduce the transfer of energy to the ball (more goes into the sand) so the ball doesn't fly as far. Yes? I wasn't saying it makes your swing more of a digger or the club more suited for a digger.

[iacas]

I think I was correct. Opening the face brings the heel relief into play so there is less effective bounce and the club will glide / skip through less and dig / bite more which will reduce the transfer of energy to the ball (more goes into the sand) so the ball doesn't fly as far. Yes? I wasn't saying it makes your swing more of a digger or the club more suited for a digger.

Opening the face can reduce the bounce in the heel, but the overall effective bounce is typically increased slightly. It really depends on the kind of grind, though, and the depth/width of the sole, etc. There's no way to make definitive statements.