Jump to content
Check out the Spin Axis Podcast! ×
Note: This thread is 3810 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

Recommended Posts

Posted

Looking for some advice  - this is my first post on here, but I've read a lot over the years and it's be really helpful.

I hit all of my irons quite short (reference: strong 7 iron will go 130-135), but I hit them to that distance extremely consistently and always straight. It's probably not an issue of strength as I am 6'3, 25 y/o and pretty athletic. From reading on this site I'm sure I'm probably flipping or opening the club-face, or any other sort of tendencies that could cause this. My question is: should I care? I've been constantly improving my handicap each year and I hope to get it to 7 by the end of the year. Honestly, the biggest weakness in my game is putting, where I lose several strokes each round on missed 6-10 footers.

If I had to guess I'd say my iron distance loses me about 2 strokes a round on average. For example, a 150 pin for me is an easy 5 iron or a strong 6 depending on lie and conditions. I can get on the green, but I can see the advantage of being able to attack the pin more with the loft of an 8i - I'd say that situation may save me a couple over a round.

Anyways, is it really worth going through the pain of a swing change to get more iron distance? Or should I just stick with whats working for me. Will it be worth it for me in the long run? My ultimate goal is to play scratch golf, and if it means getting there I'm open to a swing change, but I've tried it before and it wrecked my game for a whole year.

Appreciate any input.


Posted
Nice description. Good handicap shows you can play. A little more info like clubs your playing, shafts, ball, do have a picture or video? Some can provide positive feedback with the additional data.
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted

I play Callaway X16 pro irons with uniflex shafts. Truth be told, I don't always play the same ball type. I know I should, but I play what's on sale usually. Last few months its been Callaway Warbird plus balls. As for a pic or video - I don't have any but I can try to get one next time I'm at the range.


  • Moderator
Posted
Honestly, the biggest weakness in my game is putting, where I lose several strokes each round on missed 6-10 footers.

Might not be as bad as you think.

http://www.pgatour.com/stats/stat.404.2014.html

My question is: should I care?

Depends on what your goals are. If your goal is to just play and have fun, then you don't need to care. If you want to improve, hit the ball farther, then you're going to have to change something and put some work in.

My ultimate goal is to play scratch golf, and if it means getting there I'm open to a swing change, but I've tried it before and it wrecked my game for a whole year.

I don't see you playing scratch golf if you only hit your 7 iron 130-135.

Anyways, is it really worth going through the pain of a swing change to get more iron distance? Or should I just stick with whats working for me. Will it be worth it for me in the long run? I'm open to a swing change, but I've tried it before and it wrecked my game for a whole year.

This is a misconception with a lot of golfers (if I'm reading this post right). The thinking that improving your swing means changing your entire swing or starting from scratch. Go to a good instructor, figure out your priority piece and make that better. No need for a swing "overhaul". You should still be able to play well while you work on your swing.

Mike McLoughlin

Check out my friends on Evolvr!
Follow The Sand Trap on Twitter!  and on Facebook
Golf Terminology -  Analyzr  -  My FacebookTwitter and Instagram 

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted
You probably don't take a big swing. Search here Flighted there are videos showing partial shots. You are probably accurate. The warbird is a good two piece distance ball dimple design but not as sensitive / controllable around the greens. Bet you 2 strokes, if you use the same ball to be named later you'd perform a little better around the greens and roll the ball off the putter truer.
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted

Are your clubs lengthened at all? At 6' 2" I added 1" to my (off the shelf) club lengths and it made quite a difference IMO. I now play my 7-iron mostly at about 175 yards but it is at 31° which for some sets may be the equivalent of the loft on a 6-iron. My previous set my 7-iron I played at 155 yards.


Posted

Are your clubs lengthened at all? At 6' 2" I added 1" to my (off the shelf) club lengths and it made quite a difference IMO. I now play my 7-iron mostly at about 175 yards but it is at 31° which for some sets may be the equivalent of the loft on a 6-iron. My previous set my 7-iron I played at 155 yards.

Hmm that's interesting. No I've never lengthened or even had them fitted. Unfortunately, my golf budget isn't what I'd like it to be..maybe I'll look into that. At least then I'll know my true distances.


Posted

Hmm that's interesting. No I've never lengthened or even had them fitted. Unfortunately, my golf budget isn't what I'd like it to be..maybe I'll look into that. At least then I'll know my true distances.

If you have any decent golf store in your area they should be able to tell you if you can add length without any cost or the need to buy clubs. Just tell them you are thinking of buying new clubs in the near future and wonder if you could add some length. They should have some way to measure you for how much you can add. Then when you need to get the clubs re-gripped in the future you can have them add the length on then.


Posted

I don't see you playing scratch golf if you only hit your 7 iron 130-135.

Could you elaborate a bit more on this point?  Just curious because I don't typically feel all that disadvantaged when on the course given my distance, is it just based on the ability to attack pins? At 130 yds my playing buddies might pull a PW and send it 15 yards right/left of the green, while my 7i gets me usually 10-20 ft from the hole. I'd love to be able to hit those within 10ft, so if using a wedge can do that than that's a huge advantage, but I'm not really sure loft is the biggest factor in being THAT accurate.. What are your thoughts?


Posted
Sometimes its not a loft issue. Sometimes its old tech For example my old pings were a 7i for 115 yards. I bought new taylormades. Now i hit a 7 at 155 yards Easy to stick the green Used to have to hit a 4i at 150 and it would come in too hot to stick the green

Posted

Sometimes its not a loft issue. Sometimes its old tech

For example my old pings were a 7i for 115 yards.

I bought new taylormades. Now i hit a 7 at 155 yards Easy to stick the green

Used to have to hit a 4i at 150 and it would come in too hot to stick the green

40 yards just from a new set? That's nuts...


Posted
Just to get an idea on how we may assist as requested, pull out a recent scorecard and look at the average hole distance your playing on 4 pars. What's your typical drive distance you estimate?
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted

Just to get an idea on how we may assist as requested, pull out a recent scorecard and look at the average hole distance your playing on 4 pars. What's your typical drive distance you estimate?

Last course I played had an average par 4 distance of 367.5 yards. I'd say my average drive distance is 225-240 , but it's not my strongest club, so I emphasize keeping it center fairway over bombing it. My long iron play (3 and 4 irons) is probably what I'm best at so I feel comfortable not trying to crush it off the tee.


Posted
Looks to me your distances fit for the clubs you've addressed at the course you just mentioned, you seem to have control, so what steps are you willing to take to get longer perhaps to meet your goals. You know longer is better...I'd take a 53 yard chip over a 142 yarder any day. Pick one. I can't help you but others can, I have only a small margin to improve left at my age and limitations. But your on the right track by asking question :-)
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted

Looks to me your distances fit for the clubs you've addressed at the course you just mentioned, you seem to have control, so what steps are you willing to take to get longer perhaps to meet your goals. You know longer is better...I'd take a 53 yard chip over a 142 yarder any day. Pick one.

I can't help you but others can, I have only a small margin to improve left at my age and limitations. But your on the right track by asking question

Thanks for your input. I know everyone is right,  longer is better.. Was kinda hoping people would share some 'swing change' horror stories that persuaded me to not tinker with something that's working. More I think about it, hitting 9i and PWs into greens is going to make my birdie/par putts easier than hitting 7 and 6 irons. Next step is finding out how to get there with the least amount of change...


Posted
Thanks for your input. I know everyone is right,  longer is better.. Was kinda hoping people would share some 'swing change' horror stories that persuaded me to not tinker with something that's working. More I think about it, hitting 9i and PWs into greens is going to make my birdie/par putts easier than hitting 7 and 6 irons. Next step is finding out how to get there with the least amount of change...

Well then, let me share a little. I actually play pretty well. Injuries have taken a toll on me so I must play smart and strategic golf. I hit to spots fairly accurately and have worked hard on the 400+ par 4s and long par 5s also that are reachable. I like 200 yard par 3's too. But the fun of the game is flagging the short irons and wedges inside 140 yards for a shot at birdie. To do so, thousands of balls, lessons, round after round, shaft changes, adjustments, mis hits, changes, wedge shaft changes, driver shaft changes. Just a constant ongoing process including putter fit to my new leg height. But I hit farther now...and straighter.

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted

Could you elaborate a bit more on this point?  Just curious because I don't typically feel all that disadvantaged when on the course given my distance, is it just based on the ability to attack pins? At 130 yds my playing buddies might pull a PW and send it 15 yards right/left of the green, while my 7i gets me usually 10-20 ft from the hole. I'd love to be able to hit those within 10ft, so if using a wedge can do that than that's a huge advantage, but I'm not really sure loft is the biggest factor in being THAT accurate.. What are your thoughts?

If you can hit your average 130yd shot 10-20 feet from the hole, you'd be leading the PGA Tour in that category ! To compare - Henrik Stenson is ranked top 10 in the OWGR and he's tied for 10th in that stat at an average of 19'10" from 125-150 yards. I think you're not being totally realistic with your accuracy. Maybe I'm wrong.

To get to scratch, you will need more distance. A 420 yard Par 4 at your length would take a perfect drive and 3 wood at max distance if you drive it 230-240. Longer par 4s leave you no room for error. If you start playing the back tees, they might become 3-shot holes before you get on the green. You can never go for Par 5's in 2 at your distance, and longer ones would be need 3 excellent shots.

It would be interesting to see your swing to make a suggestion. I would gander that you make smart 3/4 swings and have a very good, relaxed tempo. Those are great qualities. Some simple improvements if you are athletic enough will add an easy 20 yards to your irons and 30 yards to your drives.

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted

If you can hit your average 130yd shot 10-20 feet from the hole, you'd be leading the PGA Tour in that category! To compare - Henrik Stenson is ranked top 10 in the OWGR and he's tied for 10th in that stat at an average of 19'10" from 125-150 yards. I think you're not being totally realistic with your accuracy. Maybe I'm wrong.

To get to scratch, you will need more distance. A 420 yard Par 4 at your length would take a perfect drive and 3 wood at max distance if you drive it 230-240. Longer par 4s leave you no room for error. If you start playing the back tees, they might become 3-shot holes before you get on the green. You can never go for Par 5's in 2 at your distance, and longer ones would be need 3 excellent shots.

It would be interesting to see your swing to make a suggestion. I would gander that you make smart 3/4 swings and have a very good, relaxed tempo. Those are great qualities. Some simple improvements if you are athletic enough will add an easy 20 yards to your irons and 30 yards to your drives.

Well, yeah my comment is assuming good lie and good conditions. At 130 yards, assuming both of those, I think I can land it within 20ft maybe 60-70% of the time. But I don't keep track of those stats so I could way off. Maybe I just have a selective memory :P

But anyways, yes you're right 400+ yard par 4s are par/bogey holes for me as I do not typically land on the green in 2 (usually fringe or a short pitch away). A good pitch will save par, a bad one will drop a shot, which is okay for me. I score well on par 5s actually, but never, ever get there in 2. But how many 9 handicappers are reaching greens in 2 on par 5s? Is that common?

Next time I'm at the range I'll snap a video to post. I have a 3/4 backswing, but I'd say from there I'm swinging 85% power.


Note: This thread is 3810 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Want to join this community?

    We'd love to have you!

    Sign Up
  • TST Partners

    PlayBetter
    Golfer's Journal
    ShotScope
    The Stack System
    FitForGolf
    FlightScope Mevo
    Direct: Mevo, Mevo+, and Pro Package.

    Coupon Codes (save 10-20%): "IACAS" for Mevo/Stack/FitForGolf, "IACASPLUS" for Mevo+/Pro Package, and "THESANDTRAP" for ShotScope. 15% off TourStriker (no code).
  • Posts

    • Day 1: 2025.12.26 Worked on LH position on grip, trying to keep fingers closer to perpendicular to the club. Feels awkward but change is meant to.
    • Please see this topic for updated information:
    • Please see this topic for updated information:
    • When you've been teaching golf as long as I have, you're going to find that you can teach some things better than you previously had, and you're probably going to find some things that you taught incorrectly. I don't see that as a bad thing — what would be worse is refusing to adapt and grow given new information. I've always said that my goal with my instruction isn't to be right, but it's to get things right. To that end, I'm about five years late in issuing a public proclamation on something… When I first got my GEARS system, I immediately looked at the golf swings of the dozens and dozens of Tour players for which I suddenly had full 3D data. I created a huge spreadsheet showing how their bodies moved, how the club moved, at various points in the swing. I mapped knee and elbow angles, hand speeds, shoulder turns and pelvis turns… etc. I re-considered what I thought I knew about the golf swing as performed by the best players. One of those things dated back to the earliest days: that you extend (I never taught "straighten" and would avoid using that word unless in the context of saying "don't fully straighten") the trail knee/leg in the backswing. I was mislead by 2D photos from less-than-ideal camera angles — the trail leg rotates a bit during the backswing, and so when observing trail knee flex should also use a camera that moves to stay perpendicular to the plane of the ankle/knee/hip joint. We have at least two topics here on this (here and here; both of which I'll be updating after publishing this) where @mvmac and I advise golfers to extend the trail knee. Learning that this was not right is one of the reasons I'm glad to have a 3D system, as most golfers generally preserve the trail knee flex throughout the backswing. Data Here's a video showing an iron and a driver of someone who has won the career slam: Here's what the graph of his right knee flex looks like. The solid lines I've positioned at the top of the backswing (GEARS aligns both swings at impact, the dashed line). Address is to the right, of course, and the graph shows knee flex from the two swings above. The data (17.56° and 23.20°) shows where this player is in both swings (orange being the yellow iron swing, pink the blue driver swing). You can see that this golfer extends his trail knee 2-3°… before bending it even more than that through the late backswing and early downswing. Months ago I created a quick Instagram video showing the trail knee flex in the backswing of several players (see the top for the larger number): Erik J. Barzeski (@iacas) • Instagram reel GEARS shares expert advice on golf swing technique, focusing on the critical backswing phase. Tour winners and major champions reveal the key to a precise and powerful swing, highlighting the importance of... Here are a few more graphs. Two LIV players and major champions: Two PGA Tour winners: Two women's #1 ranked players: Two more PGA Tour winners (one a major champ): Two former #1s, the left one being a woman, the right a man, with a driver: Two more PGA Tour players: You'll notice a trend: they almost all maintain roughly the same flex throughout their backswing and downswing. The Issues with Extending the Trail Knee You can play good golf extending (again, not "straightening") the trail knee. Some Tour players do. But, as with many things, if 95 out of 100 Tour players do it, you're most likely better off doing similarly to what they do. So, what are the issues with extending the trail knee in the backswing? To list a few: Pelvic Depth and Rotation Quality Suffers When the trail knee extends, the trail leg often acts like an axle on the backswing, with the pelvis rotating around the leg and the trail hip joint. This prevents the trail side from gaining depth, as is needed to keep the pelvis center from thrusting toward the ball. Most of the "early extension" (thrust) that I see occurs during the backswing. Encourages Early Extension (Thrust) Patterns When you've thrust and turned around the trail hip joint in the backswing, you often thrust a bit more in the downswing as the direction your pelvis is oriented is forward and "out" (to the right for a righty). Your trail leg can abduct to push you forward, but "forward" when your pelvis is turned like that is in the "thrust" direction. Additionally, the trail knee "breaking" again at the start of the downswing often jumps the trail hip out toward the ball a bit too much or too quickly. While the trail hip does move in that direction, if it's too fast or too much, it can prevent the lead side hip from getting "back" at the right rate, or at a rate commensurate with the trail hip to keep the pelvis center from thrusting. Disrupts the Pressure Shift/Transition When the trail leg extends too much, it often can't "push" forward normally. The forward push begins much earlier than forward motion begins — pushing forward begins as early as about P1.5 to P2 in the swings of most good golfers. It can push forward by abducting, again, but that's a weaker movement that shoves the pelvis forward (toward the target) and turns it more than it generally should (see the next point). Limits Internal Rotation of the Trail Hip Internal rotation of the trail hip is a sort of "limiter" on the backswing. I have seen many golfers on GEARS whose trail knee extends, whose pelvis shifts forward (toward the target), and who turn over 50°, 60°, and rarely but not never, over 70° in the backswing. If you turn 60° in the backswing, it's going to be almost impossible to get "open enough" in the downswing to arrive at a good impact position. Swaying/Lateral Motion Occasionally a golfer who extends the trail knee too much will shift back too far, but more often the issue is that the golfer will shift forward too early in the backswing (sometimes even immediately to begin the backswing), leaving them "stuck forward" to begin the downswing. They'll push forward, stop, and have to restart around P4, disrupting the smooth sequence often seen in the game's best players. Other Bits… Reduces ground reaction force potential, compromises spine inclination and posture, makes transition sequencing harder, increases stress on the trail knee and lower back… In short… It's not athletic. We don't do many athletic things with "straight" or very extended legs (unless it's the end of the action, like a jump or a big push off like a step in a running motion).
    • Day 135 12-25 Wide backswing to wide downswing drill. Recorder and used mirror. 
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Welcome to TST! Signing up is free, and you'll see fewer ads and can talk with fellow golf enthusiasts! By using TST, you agree to our Terms of Use, our Privacy Policy, and our Guidelines.