Swaying on the backswing - please, help

[gtaj]

Yeah there is a very broad spectrum of abilities out there. And arguing just what hip sway means to a 25 vs a 5 handicapper is ultimately pointless I guess. But I have my doubts that eliminating it will turn one into the other I've seen some guys play astoundingly well with a 40 yard slice they just accepted it and got it in the hole. Funny game

[iacas]

  gtaj said:

Thanks for the analysis and the effort to post it.

I like the approach described here

http://www.adamyounggolf.com/the-model-swing-is-dead/

That has nothing to do with this discussion. This isn't a "model" swing thing.

  gtaj said:

I've been down roads that may be similar to the OP in that i thought that if I could only eliminate "x" I'd be a much better golfer when In fact my efforts are much better spent in other actually achievable areas - controlling tye bottom of my swing being chief among them.

Here's the thing… How do you better control the bottom of your swing? You do it by changing your mechanics, or changing your feels, or whatever. You don't control the bottom of your swing better by just thinking about controlling the bottom of your swing (or being told that it's important).

To keep this thread on topic… With your hips sliding back, you're less likely to be able to control the bottom of your swing.

  gtaj said:

Yeah there is a very broad spectrum of abilities out there. And arguing just what hip sway means to a 25 vs a 5 handicapper is ultimately pointless I guess. But I have my doubts that eliminating it will turn one into the other I've seen some guys play astoundingly well with a 40 yard slice they just accepted it and got it in the hole. Funny game

It's not pointless. It's one of the things a 25 might need to do to become a 5.

I fix a lot of swaying hips. One of the Top 5 issues in golf, if I have to answer quickly.

[gtaj]

"You don't control the bottom of your swing better by just thinking about controlling the bottom of your swing (or being told that it's important)." That is how I work on it actually. I draw a line with spray baby powder on the ground and hit balls trying to take my divot in a good place. Over and over. Trying to isolate or worry about my hips doesn't help.

[iacas]

  gtaj said:

"You don't control the bottom of your swing better by just thinking about controlling the bottom of your swing (or being told that it's important)."

That is how I work on it actually. I draw a line with spray baby powder on the ground and hit balls trying to take my divot in a good place. Over and over. Trying to isolate or worry about my hips doesn't help.

I mean this purely from a scientific type of perspective, but… you really don't know whether it "helps" or not. You aren't able to conduct multivariate experiments on yourself. You can't clone yourself 600 times and try 20 different methods with 30 copies of yourself to generate statistically significant results.

Additionally, if my only goal is to hit the ground in front of a line (a drill I will point out that we do with a LOT of beginner golfers, and golfers who are shooting some higher scores), I could do it making all sorts of golf swings that won't produce very good results on the golf course. I can move my head forward, I can chop down steeply on the ball, I can shift my left arm out and swing way left… I can do all sorts of weird bad things.

At the end of the day, if you can't control your low point, you don't control it for a reason. Quite often that reason extends into the mechanical reasons - it's rarely not simply a "conceptual error." You already KNEW that you needed to hit the ball before the ground, did you not? So why can't you? Because you had a mechanical issue preventing you from doing it.

And before you take what I am saying as "I teach mechanical players only" or something… .

Here's a woman in her second year playing the game. She had a feel - drive her left shoulder DOWN DOWN DOWN to the X on the ground. Mechanics changed a bunch. She hit the ball higher, farther, and far more solidly (she had some whiffs on the right). Is her swing perfect? No. Does the swing on the right (the "after," I cut off the notes I typed for her) give her a better chance of playing good golf? Yes. And it's just a feel… that changed her mechanics. BTW, less hip sway… without spending one second talking about her hips.

[mvmac]

  iacas said:

Additionally, if my only goal is to hit the ground in front of a line (a drill I will point out that we do with a LOT of beginner golfers, and golfers who are shooting some higher scores), I could do it making all sorts of golf swings that won't produce very good results on the golf course. I can move my head forward, I can chop down steeply on the ball, I can shift my left arm out and swing way left… I can do all sorts of weird bad things.

Right, good point.

[JetFan1983]

  gtaj said:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sandhills Golfe

Any good tips on fixing a sway in the backswing? Also, I am a rightie and my right toes come off the ground. How do I stay grounded in the backswing? SG

What's wrong with a bit of sway in the backswing? Many top pros do and hit the ball very well.

If you hit the ball great and you've got a little bit of hip sway and don't feel like fixing it, that's great. Don't mess with anything. Bubba Watson has a bit of sway:

But the OP ain't Bubba Watson. The OP is listed as a 22 index. He never posted his swing, so we have no clue if it's his priority piece or not, but a lot of people out there have that problem, and it adds a really terrible timing variable to the swing that makes this hard game even harder.

To the OP: like others have said, educate yourself with those links provided by @mvmac and @iacas , then get in front of a mirror and see what you need to feel keep your hips from sliding back. Lock down some kind of feel you can be confident in, go to the range, and have someone film you with your phone from face on to check to see if you're actually doing it. And then keep working at it until you stop doing it. See a good pro who can work with you on fixing it.

  gtaj said:

Trying to isolate or worry about my hips doesn't help.

Great, who knows if that's your priority. If it isn't, then yea, why would it help you to work on that? You're all over the place on this thread, and missing the point. The OP just wants drills and what not to help fix a universal issue many golfers have, so people are providing him (and future readers who know how to use the search engine) with suggestions. You've turned this into, "well I don't need to work on it, so why should anyone else?" You realize that's silly, right?

A lot of really crummy golfers slide their hips back on the backswing, and it's one of the first faults a good pro will generally have to fix when he/she sees a student doing it.

[gtaj]

"Additionally, if my only goal is to hit the ground in front of a line (a drill I will point out that we do with a LOT of beginner golfers, and golfers who are shooting some higher scores), I could do it making all sorts of golf swings that won't produce very good results on the golf course. I can move my head forward, I can chop down steeply on the ball, I can shift my left arm out and swing way left… I can do all sorts of weird bad things."

lol and the couldn't be said for stopping a sway in the backswing? i could pick my arms straight up with no hip rotation and then drop the club head straight down on to the ball. i could keep my weight completely centered or better yet incroporate a nice reverse pivot. done! no sway!

exaggeration aside, im sure we agree that drills need to be done in the context of trying to hit acceptable shots, with respect to direction, trajectory and distance.

the line drill provides me with the instant feedback that i need in order to improve. it provides an external focus for me and i find it easier to dupliate when moving from the range to the course.

i believe that some movement - sway, right side load, moving off the ball or whatever - is acceptable in the backswing. that said i realize that movement means and has varying consequences for persons of different abilities.

this exchange has been enjoyable and certainly caused me to reconsider what i'm trying to accomplish with my game and how. thanks.

[iacas]

@gtaj , please use the quote features and so on.

  gtaj said:

lol and the couldn't be said for stopping a sway in the backswing? i could pick my arms straight up with no hip rotation and then drop the club head straight down on to the ball. i could keep my weight completely centered or better yet incroporate a nice reverse pivot. done! no sway!

I disagree that the same could be said for "stopping a sway in the backswing." Why? Nobody has said "stop swaying in the backswing." They've said " here is how to stop swaying and to make a proper backswing pivot."

So no, I don't think you could say the same thing at all. If you can, you've grossly mis-stated what's being said.

  gtaj said:

exaggeration aside, im sure we agree that drills need to be done in the context of trying to hit acceptable shots, with respect to direction, trajectory and distance.

Absolutely not, we do not agree on that. I do not care when doing drills about the "acceptable"-ness of the shots. I've made some great swings during practice sessions that result in a shank. One swing I made trying to hit the ball with the back of the club because it changed the way my arms and wrists work, and "changed the picture."

So no, we don't agree. In fact… . Nowhere in there is there mention of hitting acceptable shots. A lot of the article talks about doing it with shorter, slower swings - so basically the opposite of worrying about your distance.

  gtaj said:

the line drill provides me with the instant feedback that i need in order to improve. it provides an external focus for me and i find it easier to dupliate when moving from the range to the course.

This doesn't address what I said above: I could hit the ground in front of the line and get instant feedback, but all you're getting instant feedback on is… whether you did something to hit the ground in front of the line. You are not getting instant feedback on anything else - you don't know if you moved your head forward, swung well left, hit down too sharply with a super-large AoA, etc. You don't know if the mechanics were improved.

  gtaj said:

i believe that some movement - sway, right side load, moving off the ball or whatever - is acceptable in the backswing. that said i realize that movement means and has varying consequences for persons of different abilities.

Some is fine… I don't think anyone's said any differently. For many players, though, they should seek to minimize it. Many players actually increase the space during the backswing. Two quick examples that I use all the time…

[mvmac]

  None said:

  gtaj said:

the line drill provides me with the instant feedback that i need in order to improve. it provides an external focus for me and i find it easier to dupliate when moving from the range to the course.

I think the drill can be useful but only if it fits your needs, your priority piece.

What happens when you start to mis-hit shots, even when you're doing the line drill? You can only train your hand-eye coordination so much. You eventually have to identify the cause of the problem.

  None said:

  gtaj said:

i believe that some movement - sway, right side load, moving off the ball or whatever - is acceptable in the backswing. that said i realize that movement means and has varying consequences for persons of different abilities.

Point is, it's easier for golfers to control their low point if they don't add an extra "complication" like swaying on the backswing. Swaying is a common fault with amateurs and not a trait you'll find among players that consistently hit the ball solid (scratch golfers-pros).