Extending clubs & lie angle

[Roenie]

Everywhere I go, I read that when you add length to clubs, you should adjust the lie as well. Even a clubfitter told me this.
It seems false to me if the goal of using longer clubs is to get into a more comfortable spine angle position (which typically is the goal, right?):

 

Try this to see what I'm on about:
- Grab a wedge "choked down" all the way down the grip so your index finger touches the bare shaft. As if you have a very short club.
- Now set up with the clubhead flat on the ground. You'll have to bend over a lot, as if you are a tall player with short clubs. Hold this position.
- Slide your hands back to the normal position on the grip without changing anything else, as if you extend your club. Now your hands are too close to your body.
- Push your hands away from you. Now the toe points up, and you are too far from the ball.
- Now raise your chest. This raises your hands, so the clubhead will be level with the ground again, it also slides closer to you.

It seems to me that if the lie was correct to begin with, it should still be correct after extending the club, because you extended the club in order to raise your chest which in turn raised your hands. Am I wrong?

Making the lie more upright instead of (or in combination with) adding length would actually strain my left wrist if the grip is properly held (in the fingers), because the wrist needs to bend down to get the shaft in the more vertical position required to get the clubhead level to the ground.

Edited August 8, 2016 by Roenie

[newtogolf]

If you add length you may also have to adjust swing weight

[natureboy]

1 hour ago, Roenie said:

Everywhere I go, I read that when you add length to clubs, you should adjust the lie as well. Even a clubfitter told me this.
It seems false to me if the goal of using longer clubs is to get into a more comfortable spine angle position (which typically is the goal, right?):

 

Try this to see what I'm on about:
- Grab a wedge "choked down" all the way down the grip so your index finger touches the bare shaft. As if you have a very short club.
- Now set up with the clubhead flat on the ground. You'll have to bend over a lot, as if you are a tall player with short clubs. Hold this position.
- Slide your hands back to the normal position on the grip without changing anything else, as if you extend your club. Now your hands are too close to your body.
- Push your hands away from you. Now the toe points up, and you are too far from the ball.
- Now raise your chest. This raises your hands, so the clubhead will be level with the ground again, it also slides closer to you.

It seems to me that if the lie was correct to begin with, it should still be correct after extending the club, because you extended the club in order to raise your chest which in turn raised your hands. Am I wrong?

Making the lie more upright instead of (or in combination with) adding length would actually strain my left wrist if the grip is properly held (in the fingers), because the wrist needs to bend down to get the shaft in the more vertical position required to get the clubhead level to the ground.

Another reason to tweak the lie with a longer shaft is the 'droop' effect. The longer the shaft the more the shaft will bend down toward the ground through impact (essentially making it more 'toe down') so to get the club sole moving through the ground as level with a longer shaft you may need to make the lie a bit more upright to lift the slightly 'drooping' toe.

[WUTiger]

Shaft length and lie angle are highly related, and adjusting one often requires adjusting the other. Also, the purpose of adjusting lie angle is to get clubface square at impact; if comfortable spine angle also results, so be it... but that's not the reason for adjusting lie.

16 hours ago, Roenie said:

It seems to me that if the lie was correct to begin with, it should still be correct after extending the club, because you extended the club in order to raise your chest which in turn raised your hands. Am I wrong?

Callaway clubfitting guidelines say that:

1. Lie angle should be fit dynamically, determining lie angle at impact - not how the clubface sets at address. (...if lie was correct to begin with.. has no bearing. Is lie angle correct at impact?)
2. Lie angle should be used to fine-tune the club after shafts are cut to proper length.

15 hours ago, natureboy said:

The longer the shaft the more the shaft will bend down toward the ground through impact (essentially making it more 'toe down')

Now, if shaft is lengthened 1/2", the club's lie will become 1 degree more upright. But as nb says, this will increase the toe down (lie angle flattens more at impact), so you would need a dynamic fitting to see how much the lie angle needed to be changed.

16 hours ago, newtogolf said:

If you add length you may also have to adjust swing weight

Very definitely. Increasing a club's length 1/2" increases swingweight +3 points; the opposite for trimming shaft length. You can lessen swingweight on lengthened club by putting on slightly heavier grip; a good clubfitter can calculate this for you.