Help with a rule query!!!

[JaY_B]

Singles match play, I'm off 5, opponents off 9, after 18 holes we are all square, so have a play off, neither of us knew the ruling so we decided between us that strokes do not carry on ( Now know this is wrong, but not the point )

On the third play off hole (Hole three on the course) my opponent would have got a shot, but obviously didn't as we agreed there were no shots, and after four play off holes we had to stop as it got to dark.

We have had a conversation with members at the club about the ruling and one ruling is that we have 'waived the rules' so are both disqualified, but this is a very black and white interpretation of the rules which I don't think is accurate, are there any rules experts who could tell me what the issue is, (PS I don't want to get disqualified but equally don't want to break any rules, its a tough situation)

I want factual answers not opinions based on fairness, thanks in advance, JaY_B

[JonnyGolf]

You didn't agree to waive the rules. You discussed the rules (or what you thought were the rules). In fact, you don't didn't anything until you signed the scorecards. And you should only have turned in your gross scores, not net. So, the playoff ended on the third hole and you played an extra hole.

[pom]

As both players did not understand the rules there was no agreement to waive the rules so there is no penalty. in the case of the extra holes ,as your opponent made no claim to have won the hole before teeing off on the next hole he has no claim on that hole & the hole is halved, regardless of the fact that he should have had a stroke there. the only decision that needs making is how you decide the match after suspending play for bad light. this should be decided by your club rules official as should the decision on the result of the match
Hope this helps ,regards, pom.

[TourSpoon]

As both players did not understand the rules there was no agreement to waive the rules so there is no penalty. in the case of the extra holes ,as your opponent made no claim to have won the hole before teeing off on the next hole he has no claim on that hole & the hole is halved, regardless of the fact that he should have had a stroke there. the only decision that needs making is how you decide the match after suspending play for bad light. this should be decided by your club rules official as should the decision on the result of the match

In a case of resolving a halved match, you consult the committee to see how to resolve it. Since you two had no access to a committee you continued to play. As pom indicated, claims are usually made before teeing off on the next hole, but your actions to proceed with limited understanding of the rules could produce a legitimate claim after the fact.

"2-5 A later claim may not be considered by the Committee unless it is based on facts previously unknown to the player making the claim and he had been given wrong information (Rules 6-2a and 9) by an opponent." Now I would argue that this may be the case as you extended the match without knowledge of the procedure and now you are asking that the committee decide the outcome. In a sanctioned match we know who the committee is, but if this is just a match between two friends are they the committee? If you guys are playing a casual match then you probably live by how you decided to extend the match and be done with it, but if it has any official bearing then you go to the rules committee and abide by their decision. Disclaimer: I am no rules expert but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express (I think only the North Americans will get this one).

[golfchief]

Rule 1-3 agreement to waive rules. Both players Disqualified.

Not knowing the rule is not an excuse. Before turning in the score card you check with the committee for violation of a rule. Not knowing the rule would have been settled before turning in the card and the correct winner would have been declared.

The question of not allowing strokes on play off holes was wrong but the committee would have corrected the error if the card was not signed.

[JonnyGolf]

Rule 1-3 agreement to waive rules. Both players Disqualified.

I believe this is wrong. In law, lack of knowledge is not an excuse. But these are rules, not laws. 1-3 states: "Players must not agree to exclude the operation of any Rule or to waive any penalty incurred."

In fact, this ruling (1-3/5) partially resolves this issue: 1-3/5 Players Unaware Penalty Incurred Q. In a match, A incurred a penalty stroke under Rule 12-2 for lifting his ball for identification without announcing his intention to B, his opponent. A did not penalize himself and B did not make a claim because neither A nor B was aware a penalty had been incurred. Should the Committee disqualify A and B under Rule 1-3 for agreeing to waive a penalty? A. No. Since the players were not aware a penalty had been incurred, there could have been no agreement between them to waive the penalty. There wasn't any discussion of waiving rules. They would have had to say, "I know we are supposed to count strokes, but to save time, lets just go from scratch." I agree that the committee should sort things out.

[golfchief]

This is correct. They played the first 18 by a set of rules, going extra holes would have been common knowledge to follow the same rules in a match for extra holes. So agreeing not to use the handicap strokes was agreeing not to play by the rules.

[pom]

Isa it normal in America to hand in a scorecard for a matchplay round. In Australia we do not ,as often you do not play all 18 holes before the match is decided & the total score in matchplay is unimportant.Only the hole by hole result counts

[golfchief]

A score card should be turned in to the official scorer to show you did play and how you won or lost the match. Match or stroke play turn in the card.

[pom]

A score card should be turned in to the official scorer to show you did play and how you won or lost the match. Match or stroke play turn in the card.

There are no requirements in the rules of golf for a player to submit a scorecard when playing matchplay. the only reason for submitting a card is if you where playing matchplay & strokeplay at the same time which is not legal as far as the Rules of golf are concerned. Would this be a club ruling.

[golfchief]

Rule 6-1 states; the players are responsible for knowing the rules.

[JaY_B]

Quick update on the out come, we have both been disqualified (...great) but there were no hard feelings which is good, most importantly the scratch match play starts again soon, so I'll just have to win that lol, thanks for all the helpful replies though!

[golfchief]

Sorry to hear that. That is one rule you'll never forget.

[pom]

Quick update on the out come, we have both been disqualified (...great) but there were no hard feelings which is good, most importantly the scratch match play starts again soon, so I'll just have to win that lol, thanks for all the helpful replies though!

Sorry to hear that But it is the comittees decision . just curious . what reason did they give for the disqualification. good luck in the scratch. I reckon it is the best version of the game to play.