Stan Utley Short Game theories

[jowlar]

I just finished reading Stan Utley's "The Art of the Short Game" and was curious if any other have read it. I liked the fact that his technique for chips and pitchs was basically a mini full swing. Of course, I find it hard to really grasp the full concept by simply reading the book and I have been searching for some video of Stan demonstrating his chipping and pitching techniques. For those of you that have read the book or have taken short game lessons utilizing Utley's techniques, what are your thoughts?

[Shindig]

I just finished reading Stan Utley's "The Art of the Short Game" and was curious if any other have read it. I liked the fact that his technique for chips and pitchs was basically a mini full swing. Of course, I find it hard to really grasp the full concept by simply reading the book and I have been searching for some video of Stan demonstrating his chipping and pitching techniques. For those of you that have read the book or have taken short game lessons utilizing Utley's techniques, what are your thoughts?

I like the techniques and the explanations. I'm in the middle of putting them into practice, and my pitching and chipping seem to have improved. My sand play has gotten much better. I'm having trouble implementing the putting technique, but I'm trying.

[jowlar]

I like the techniques and the explanations. I'm in the middle of putting them into practice, and my pitching and chipping seem to have improved. My sand play has gotten much better. I'm having trouble implementing the putting technique, but I'm trying.

I skipped the chapter on sand play b/c that is one of my strong suits and I didnt want any new ideas to creep into my swing. I didnt like the putting book at all but I like the chipping and pitching techniques. Did you get the idea that is was a handsy motion(ex "the grip end of the club barely moves") or did I misinterpret?

[doberman]

I've read both books and found them helpful. It particularly helped me in the sand, which is my weak spot. The idea behind the putting stroke is not unlike the stroke Scotty Cameron promotes and is behind the development of the Detour putters.

[Shindig]

I skipped the chapter on sand play b/c that is one of my strong suits and I didnt want any new ideas to creep into my swing. I didnt like the putting book at all but I like the chipping and pitching techniques. Did you get the idea that is was a handsy motion(ex "the grip end of the club barely moves") or did I misinterpret?

Sand play was a weak point for me, so I read that one first. Since then, I've had more sand saves than non-sand saves when dealing with a greenside bunker. I even holed out one. So I'm sold on his sand play.

As for the putting, I've been interpreting it as a handsy motion. Maybe we need to form a Utley-study group and figure it out.

[doberman]

I don't think he's promoting a handsey motion as much as he believes the putterhead path should be inside to square to inside. This motion can be done by turning the shoulders and keeping the hands reasonably quiet. He feels this is a more natural approach to putting and like a mini-swing. This is different than the Dave Pelz method of straight back and straight through. I find that if I try the straight back method that I have to manipulate my hands to keep the putterhead square, and that pulls my arms away from my body.

[Richie3Jack]

I've read bits and pieces on the book. The chips and pitches like a mini-swing is something that I always believed anyway. His putting philosophy I eschew since I'm a firm believer that it's straight back and straight thru. Anything else is just making things more complicated timing wise.




3Jack

[Bignose]

I don't think his chipping or pitching style is handsy, either, since he strongly promotes the use of pivoting the lower body to regulate the speed. Like all the good short game books, he completely stesses not to use the hands to flip or scoop at impact.

On the topic of the grip not moving much for a chip, his backswing is getting the club and hands into a good impact position. Cupped right wrist, hands ready to be ahead at impact, good lag, etc. Then on the downswing, the entire club is swung around to the left. Look at the color panes for the chip -- #4 is the top of the backswing and his hands are still next to his back leg. #5 is the first downswing position, and his hands have moved to be next to his front leg. #6 at just past impact, they have moved around the body.

The hands not moving are just to put his hands into the same position they would be on at that time for a full swing. Just like he talks about the chip being just the bottom of the arc of a full swing.

[rydaddy]

As for the putting, I've been interpreting it as a handsy motion. Maybe we need to form a Utley-study group and figure it out.

I read Utley's putting book. I have a hard time figuring out how to keep the grip end of the club quiet and

not be handsy, i.e. breaking my wrists. What seems to work for me is I am focusing on the hinging of the elbos. My stroke feels most natural when I allow my right elbo to hinge on the backswing and my left elbo hinges on the downswing. I have more hand movement than Utely but less wrist movement than what I see in his photos. I have decided that putting is a thing of personal preference. I can't completely mimic Utley's putting stroke but I have adopted many fundamentals from him. I'm also having a hard time keeping my back straight while bending at the waist. I think I need a longer shaft on my putter.

[elchene]

I read Utley's putting book. I have a hard time figuring out how to keep the grip end of the club quiet and

I had the same problem but I realized the answer. You need the forward press that Utley has (Pg 24). The forward press allows you to move the clubhead back without swinging the grip end much. If you keep your wrist angles intact and swing the clubhead end, you'll see what Utley is talking about. I don't think the stroke Utley teaches feels handsy. Once you got the forward press, you'll see how natural it feels. Hope this helps...

[rydaddy]

I had the same problem but I realized the answer. You need the forward press that Utley has (Pg 24). The forward press allows you to move the clubhead back without swinging the grip end much. If you keep your wrist angles intact and swing the clubhead end, you'll see what Utley is talking about. I don't think the stroke Utley teaches feels handsy. Once you got the forward press, you'll see how natural it feels. Hope this helps...

Thanks for the tip! I'll check it out this weekend

[elchene]

No problem.

[tjglfr]

Only problem I'm having is chipping with a 58*. Direction is good, but can't get used to poping up my chip shots with that much loft.

[MrSandman]

I think the problem with the Utley books is the potential for the beginner to exagerrate the technique. I read the books, didn't think much of them, but then had a beginner friend read the books and he really screwed himself up. He was pivoting on his putts so much that there was no way he could return the face to square, missing everything right. His chips were even worse. He really takes it inside on his swing (stack and tilt style), and was trying to do that on his short shots. He would have his hands behind his backside on his takeaway and then whip the club around trying to return it to square (as a mini swing). Terrible, terrible, terrible results. Couldn't get his chips/pitches airborn.

I think Utley tried to make too big a deal about the distinction between his technique and other taught methods (not that I blame him, he is trying to show what distinguishes his approach), but it caused a beginner to exagerrate the slight deviations and make hitting the ball very difficult.

[tjglfr]

I like his technique. I'm putting better and my pitching has improved, but having trouble with the trajectory of my chip shots.

[iacas]

I didnt like the putting book at all but I like the chipping and pitching techniques. Did you get the idea that is was a handsy motion(ex "the grip end of the club barely moves") or did I misinterpret?

I got that impression as well, and I didn't like putting the putter grip across my lifelines. I like it, like with my other clubs, in my finger tips more. I know he still gets his fingertips on the grip, but I felt his motion was a bit more wristy than I like. I like to rock the shoulders - it's still an arc, but my hands are pretty still and the grip seems to move more than he likes. I find my distance control is just fine, and switching to his style might hinder that.

But putting, unlike most other parts of the short game, is pretty personal, and so long as you can repeat your stroke, it's really all about "whatever works."

I don't think he's promoting a handsey motion as much as he believes the putterhead path should be inside to square to inside.

He does believe inside-square-inside, but I don't think that's at the exclusion of being a bit more "wristy."

His putting philosophy I eschew since I'm a firm believer that it's straight back and straight thru. Anything else is just making things more complicated timing wise.

I disagree. I think if you have to manipulate the clubface in order to keep it square, that requires more timing than simply rocking the shoulders and letting the putter open and close naturally.

I've read his putting book, but I'm just now reading (tonight) his short game book. Looking forward to it. I've relied for a long time - too long - on my own feel and the mechanics I kind of make up as I go. Yeah, it worked for Seve, but I am not Seve. I get by okay, but I'd like to eliminate the occasional horrible short game shot I tend to hit.

[JackieTreehorn]

Has anyone mastered his sand technique? Especially for high shots? I am getting out of the sand with a repeatable but very low flying shot. I am really struggling to get the ball higher. I want to continue with his method though because the sand shots feel so smooth. Compared to the standard open stance method, I feel there is less guess work on how hard to swing etc.

By the way, I am using a 60* Cleveland CG10 with pretty low bounce.

[Guest]

I found some video on You Tube showing Stan demonstrating his techniques. Definetely helps to "see it". Stan has made me a better putter and chipper.