JonMA1

Why wouldn't I have the data? And I made a point of turning this discussion away from me in my last post. Why bring that up???? You asked that I not bring my game up. Perhaps you could show me the same courtesy. I disagree that some golfers - especially those on this site and those who track stats - are not qualified to determine weaknesses. They are not going to be as thorough or exact and they are going to get it wrong to some degree, but they are there watching what happens. It is possible to be objective.

Can't an individual (not me) get that unbiased information through 120 rounds recorded in GameGolf?

Shot a 95 from the tips of an easy, wide open course (around 6,000 yards). After a rocky start, I started hitting my driver pretty well, getting decent carry for the first time in a while. I only hit 3 GIR (and of course failed to hit par on each), but I had so many nGIR's - 6 putts from off the green (all from within a couple yards) and several chips. I use a partial swing from almost every shot 125 yards and in. Today I had trouble with club face control and most went slightly right - hence the nGIR's. For the majority of the holes, the full swing put me in position to make pars but I failed to convert.

Understood. Seriously? Who else is going to do it? Are you suggesting this because you think I'm unable to be objective or because I'm not smart enough or experienced enough to know where strokes are lost? That's not a defensive reply, it's fair for you might think either of those. You're right in that I don't fully understand the strokes gained methodology. I guess all I'd have to do is read up on it in GameGolf. But it's not hard to know what type of shot cost me strokes. And it's not that hard to look over previous rounds and see where strokes were lost there either. It's also not that hard for me to judge where my limit is going to be on a given skill. Except that you have some calling out others who claim they have to work harder on their short games as being misinformed or not qualified to make those determinations. If we (members) can't apply this stuff to our own game, what good is the information or the discussion. I seriously doubt I'm the only golfer in the world who falls outside the norm. Seems like a reasonable thing to talk about. Erik, it's your site. You want me to stop talking about it, say the word and there will be no hard feelings. I just wanted to correct an opinion I'd made previously.

My entire game is a glaring weakness. I have to improve everything. And I'm not looking to gain 10 strokes. How about 120 rounds? Is that a large enough sample? Today's round was very typical. I hit my scoring average exactly and in the same way as normal. The only difference is that while I was playing, I thought a lot more about what cost me strokes, where improved skill could have lowered the score, and how much effort would learning that skill require.

After really thinking about this during today's round and assessing each hole, I'm going back on what I said previously. At where my game is and at my level, they are both very close to equally important. Both are bad, both cost a lot of strokes. I just can't see the logic of one being drastically more important than the other. The only "tie-breaker" might be that really bad full swings can result in penalties - which cost twice as much as a poorly executed putt or chip. (I don't mind being ridiculed for this and I'm not trying to start shit with anyone. After all, it's just a game.)

That’s not what I said. And I’m not sure why when I say putting more effort into the short game will allow me to gain a couple strokes people come to the conclusion I think that alone will get me down to single digits. I don’t disagree with you as much as you think I do. I just believe that my skills should remain closer than they have been in the past. I also believe that for some of us the ceiling is a bit lower for getting good at the full swing. Doesn’t mean I shouldn’t apply the 65/20/15 rule when the skills are in line, only that I have a pretty good handle on how much it will help.

I agree 100%, but that wasn’t the point of my post. It was more that an intelligent golfer can make a statement about her game and have folks quickly indicate she’s likely incorrect in her assessment simply based on the average of the population or on their observations of others.

I agree the full swing is more important than the short game. It's the hardest skill to learn and those who are very good at this game are very good ball strikers. But there are a lot of us who, for a number of reasons, will never in a million years become good ball strikers. We aren't going to hit 12 GIR much less get the ball within 5' on a very high percentage of the few greens we do hit with a full swing. That is just a fact. If I hired the best instructor, practiced properly for 4 hours a day working strictly on my full swing, I'd still never come close to those numbers. Knowing this, I can approach improvement a bit more realistically. I can disregard what's needed to get to scratch and concentrate more on the best I can do with what I have. That means bringing my full swing to the level of keeping it in play and getting it close to the green. With that may come hitting 5 or 6 greens.There will be rounds where there won't be any realistic birdie chances. Sadly, this is the best many of us will be able to accomplish with our full swing. With that in mind, wouldn't I want to get as good as I possibly could at the short game? I can't completely disregard the full swing practice to accomplish that because I'd then be sacrificing my potential described above. But at some point, it makes sense to devote a lot of practice time to develop those skills because of the strokes that can be gained. My full swing relative to your game is a joke @NM Golf. But my full swing relative to the rest of my game is a slight strength. I'm not going to pretend to know as much about golf as you guys, but improving the short game sometimes has merit, IMO. While I may not be the average golfer, I don't think a weakness in the short game is as rare as many think. It's also likely improvement there can come easier and require less maintenance than the full swing.

I'm not sure why people have such a hard time believing this. Is it typical? No. But it's not like everyone has the same weakness. It reminds me of a couple of YouTube posts that claim if you employ a certain strategy, you're guaranteed to break 90 (or 80 or whatever). They think everyone has the exact same weakness, therefore one fix will cure us all. You strike the ball better than I do @DrvFrShow and my poor short game and putting are at least as costly as my full swing in preventing me from getting below 18. So if you or anyone else claims the short game is hurting their score the most, I'm not going to doubt it. It's not like we're claiming our short game is keeping us from getting to scratch. Some folks will take a fact that applies to the general population and want to apply it to everyone. And of course, who the hell are you to claim you know your own game as much as someone online who's never seen you play (sarcasm).

@HJJ003 - a while back you had mentioned the possibility that hitting off-center on the driver face might be a reason for my weak drives. It's been bugging me since then and I finally had a chance to check it out yesterday. In lieu of impact tape, I used some postage labels and hit a few drives. The first shot is the one highest on the face. Maybe I just have hands of stone, but it didn't feel like terrible impact as is the case when I hit off the toe or heel. So this could be happening on the course and I'd be unaware of it. Next, I had to figure out how to fix it. I'm thinking it's a negative angle of attack but I'm pretty ignorant about that stuff. Still, I tried to get my low point back a few inches thinking it result in a positive angle. But I was still hitting pretty high on the face. I finally combined getting the low point back along with a shallower angle (if that's the right term), and I hit a couple down closer to the center. Unfortunately, the ball flight was a bit lower than I think it should be. But again, what the heck do I know? I'm wondering if I shouldn't tee the ball up just a bit higher, and combine that with playing the ball up a bit more in my stance. I'm currently using 2 3/4" tees and keep them fairly high. More than likely, the lack of distance is as simple as less club head speed. Still, now and then I'll get that 220 - 230 carry. It would be nice have that happening a lot more often. Anyway, thanks for the advice and I'll keep working on this.

I think the expression “what doesn’t kill you makes you stronger” applies to me doing any kind of cardio workout.

I played better than I expected to. It’s been a long time since I’ve had that kind of control over the full swing - even it was just for 9 holes. So besides the bit of frustration, yes it was fun and I’ll likely do it again. Almost as important as the enjoyment was that I discovered some weaknesses and strengths in my game... which is never a bad thing. *Regarding the cold, I literally had the entire course to myself for almost 4 hours.

Of course it was. You know all but the last few lines of the entry was tongue-in-cheek, right? I feel I have a good handle on the reality of my game... if that's what you're asking. I'm happy when any part of it happens to be better than average in a given round but, at the same time, try to recognize it for what it really is. The two GIR's on the 2nd time through was at my average of four per 18.

I finally got around to playing 18 holes of golf with only 4 clubs this morning - something I've wanted to do since early in the season. My goal was to keep the score to within 5 of my average. The 4 hybrid and 9i were shoo-ins. The 4h because I seem to hit it well, and the 9i because I can use for a short bump-and-run all the way up to a 130 yard full swing. I then had to decide on two more. I decided to bench my gap wedge, which is the go-to club from 100 yards and in, and go with the sand wedge instead. The reason being too much roll on short sided flag locations seem to be costing me strokes. Perhaps forcing myself to use a more lofted wedge would be beneficial. Last, I decided to go with the putter and disregard @boogielicious' advice to learn to putt with a wedge instead. This would have allowed another option for the full swing. I have to admit there was little chance the putter would be left behind. It's not that I'm at all good with the putter, but it's used from off the green a lot and it's better than trying to putt with any other club. That would turn out to be far from the truth. The first 9 The first two holes were pretty typical, a couple of bogeys that resulted from less than perfect tee shots. Still, I felt pretty good about how the round was going. Then came the par 5 3rd. Two beautiful 4-hybrid shots left me with a short approach of around 90 yards. Time to test the SW on a shot I'd have used the GW for all-day-long. Good contact, high, and right at the flag, 2 putt for par. Nice, I thought. Not a bad start and everything felt good. Next up were three par 4's in a row followed by a par 5. The hybrid felt really good off the tee and whenever I needed less than a full swing, the club responded very well as did the SW and the 9i. I would hit GIR's on those next four holes. My full swing and partial swings were golden. But the golf gods giveth and they taketh. The first par 4 had a pin location to the front of a very fast downhill green and my partial hybrid approach had found the back. To be honest, I was ok with the 3-putt bogey in this situation. Besides, the way I was striking the ball, I'd make up for it with subsequent pars. The pin location on the next par 4 was uphill with my SW approach landing about 25 feet below. The lag putt can only be politely described as wimpy. It wasn't a poor read, or a bad bead, I just didn't get anywhere near the speed I knew was needed to get it close. 3-putt number 2. Despite temps in the 30's, I was starting to get warm under the collar. It was hard to enjoy one of my best ball striking rounds when I couldn't close the deal. But c'mon, that was only two holes. Surely the putting would get back on track. The next par 4 included a beautiful partial hybrid, a flighted 9 iron below the pin... and three more putts including a miss from 18". In all fairness, I shouldn't have hit the green on the next par 5. The 4h approach to the green started a bit right, but a tree branch deflected it to the green. There was no way the golf gods were going to let this bit of luck remain unpunished. Hence, a nice 4-putt and my first double of the day. https://www.gamegolf.com/player/JonMa1/round/2425607 The second 9 Instead of describing each of the next 9 holes, I'll only say that the golf gods had a hard-on for me today. Sure, they'd allowed decent putting this second time through the 9 hole course, but as if to say "you didn't think we were just going to give good putting back to you" they made sure to take away the good ball striking. The hole where I got my only par on first 9 resulted in a 10 the second time through. The comedy of errors leading to that wonderful score included playing bloody knuckles (literally) with two oak trees when I tried to punch out an errant 4 hybrid shot from between them. https://www.gamegolf.com/player/JonMa1/round/2425761 Eat $#!^ and die, golf gods! As for the four-club "challenge", it should have been more fun than it was, but that's on me. There were positives... • My goal was to keep the score within 5 of my average and I kept it to within 1. • I not only hit the ball solidly on most shots, I was able to adjust and control distance, and even shape a couple of shots. • In many situations, the SW is a better club than the GW around the green. • The 7 GIRs is the highest I've had in some time - and there were several nGIR as well. • The round didn't cause me to putt more poorly than usual, the GIRs only exposed my poor putting. High GIR = more putts unless you're good at both. This round also backed up what I believe to be true. Using a safer, shorter club off the tee doesn't guarantee a better score for everyone. I hit 71% of my fairways today, did not get any penalties, and still failed to break 95. Instead of leaving the driver at home, maybe I should become as skilled with that club as I am with the 4 hybrid.