When is a ball officially lost?

[Ignorant]

Once again it depends on what the shot would have required from the correct spot.  I've see trees which were of minimal effect, and trees which could just as well have been a brick wall.  That is a case where I'd have to see the correct spot and the tree and make the ruling based on what I saw there.  It still isn't an automatic call.

Earlier you wrote:

I even asked about if a player moved his ball out of line with a tree and was told "No, that doesn't qualify unless he moved the ball closer to the hole as well."  I don't know why it is perceived that way, but that's how it is generally ruled.  The 2 stroke penalty covers just about any fault except a significant distance gain.  A significant distance gain is almost always treated as a serious breach.

How does that fit to Tufts' 2nd principle?

[Ignorant]

Sorry. I simply don't know anything about you.

Sure you do, you've read my earlier posts as I have yours. We both know the Rules to some extent.

[Fourputt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fourputt

Once again it depends on what the shot would have required from the correct spot.  I've see trees which were of minimal effect, and trees which could just as well have been a brick wall.  That is a case where I'd have to see the correct spot and the tree and make the ruling based on what I saw there.  It still isn't an automatic call.

Earlier you wrote:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fourputt

I even asked about if a player moved his ball out of line with a tree and was told "No, that doesn't qualify unless he moved the ball closer to the hole as well."  I don't know why it is perceived that way, but that's how it is generally ruled.  The 2 stroke penalty covers just about any fault except a significant distance gain.  A significant distance gain is almost always treated as a serious breach.

How does that fit to Tufts' 2nd principle?

All I was doing is telling you what I was told by an experienced rules official and instructor.  I didn't try to analyse it.  Unlike you I don't question everything anyone says.  Sometimes  I take them at face value.  Cases which can be classified as a serious breaches tend to be so rare that there really aren't any set in stone guidelines.  I'm sorry that it can't be defined as finely as yo seem to require, but that's just how it is.

You keep trying to twist my words back on me, even after I tell you that there are no fixed rules on this topic, and all you are doing is starting to make me angry.  I don't have the principles in front of me right now, so I am unwilling to make any more statements that you will try and call me out on until I do.  I can't get the book shipped to me here, so I've ordered it and I will hopefully have in in hand again next month when my sister comes to visit.  It's been several years since I actually read the book, so my memory of it is fairly general, not specific.